Reality doesn't change because you don't want to hear it

[cosmosdan]

@Shodan

I believe it has already been established that “nothing can be done” was not true. To put it as bluntly as possible, Chimera claimed that she was just about to “bend over backwards” to assist the customer, and would have done so, if the customer had reacted politely to being lied to and brushed off.

Let’s get this straight once and for all so this falsehood isn’t repeated again.
Nobody told the customer that nothing could be done, ever!! That’s not what the OP said. It’s just been a repeated careless and foolish misreading of what is plainly stated. Nobody lied to this customer or brushed her off so stop repeating this kind of BS.

This is not one of those times. The company screwed it up, and therefore they can un-screw it.

And they , through Chimera, were perfectly willing to fix the problem. The problem was that it couldn’t be done in exactly the way the customer wanted it done. He could not cancel a refund that had already gone through. Either the customer couldn’t grasp this or from the description, became completely irrational and out of control before listening to the proposed solution.

It’s like, “I want you to drive my car down 2nd street to my happy place”

Well, 2nd street is closed but I can still get there by…

“YOU’RE NOT LISTENING TO ME AND DOING EXACTLY WHAT I WANT!! LET ME SPEAK TO SOMEONE ELSE!!! SOMEONE HIGHER UP!”

Really, I can get to your happy place if I…

“LET ME SPEAK TO SOMEONE HIGHER UP!!”

The problem was any someone higher up could only do what Chimera was already willing to do, but not before crazy lady clamed down listened to the solution and agreed.
So please, stop misrepresenting what the OP actually said. It was a simple rant about a a horrible irrational customer who was in the wrong.

[cosmosdan]

@Shodan

This is fraud, morally if not legally. And I find it difficult to imagine anyone with the gall to think I would buy something from a company that “diplomatically” told me that they had ripped me off and weren’t going to do anything about it.

Regards,
Shodan

That’s kinda what I was thinking. You may have the legal right according to the fine print , to sell this contract but the customer originally paid you for a service that you are now refusing to supply.

If someone hires me to paint their house and I pay others to do it,if they bail and stop painting I am ethically obligated to finish the job I was paid to do.

There may have been some fine print that the customer never read allowing the company to sell the contract but if I was the customer I’d want to see it in black and white.

[Nzinga_Seated]

We were threatened with all kinds of lawsuits, and I really don’t know what ultimately happened, but the company was well aware that all the customers were shouting ‘we are gonna sue’ and it didn’t change anything at all for the duration that I was there. We still didn’t fix their pcs.

There is no question that the company was doing the wrong thing, ethically. The point of the story is that sometimes that happens. And when it does, this idea that the customer has of calmly telling a phone rep that “there is going to be a fix for me” over and over is absolutely impotent and pointless. Sometimes, there is *not *going to be a fix for you.

ETA: And, Shodan, rather you find it difficult to believe or not, I assure you, there were plenty of people that yes indeedy did turn right around and pay us to fix their pcs, particularly the customers that had the kind of issue that needed to be corrected by the manufacturer.

[cosmosdan]

@Nzinga_Seated

We were threatened with all kinds of lawsuits, and I really don’t know what ultimately happened, but the company was well aware that all the customers were shouting ‘we are gonna sue’ and it didn’t change anything at all for the duration that I was there. We still didn’t fix their pcs.

There is no question that the company was doing the wrong thing, ethically. The point of the story is that sometimes that happens. And when it does, this idea that the customer has of calmly telling a phone rep that “there is going to be a fix for me” over and over is absolutely impotent and pointless. Sometimes, there is *not *going to be a fix for you.

ETA: And, Shodan, rather you find it difficult to believe or not, I assure you, there were plenty of people that yes indeedy did turn right around and pay us to fix their pcs, particularly the customers that had the kind of issue that needed to be corrected by the manufacturer.

Point made.

The reality is, ethical or not, a PC repair of a few hundred dollars is not worth a lot of hassle over. If they still had their contract they might read through it to see if there was a clause that allowed it to be sold without their approval.

[Shodan]

@cosmosdan

Nobody lied to this customer or brushed her off so stop repeating this kind of BS.

You’re wrong, obviously -

She wanted me to cancel the cancellation, and put the plan back into effect, then cancel the appropriate one. Ok, so I look into it, and figured out that the cancellation process has already been completed (it had been over a week) and she’s been given the money back. It is not possible for me to cancel it, we need to sell her another plan. I inform her of this.

Chimera later claimed that she could bend over backwards to fix the problem, but didn’t, because the customer flipped out when told the above.

The notion that Chimera couldn’t cancel the account is pretty self-evidently false - if she could cancel the one, she can cancel the other. She just didn’t want to, because the company couldn’t get the money for it from the credit card company.

He could not cancel a refund that had already gone through.

Again, this is irrelevant. The company should accept that they will never get that money.

The company should [ol][li]Apologize for their mistake []Cancel the account the customer did not want[]Re-open the account the customer did want [*]Make no attempt to recover the refund - not from the credit card company and certainly not from the customer.[/ol]That’s what it means to say “the company should eat the loss”. The company made the mistake, therefore the company should suffer the loss. Not only should no attempt be made to get that money from the customer, it should not even have been mentioned. Whether or not the company is losing money is not of any concern to the customer. [/li]

It’s like, “I want you to drive my car down 2nd street to my happy place”

Well, 2nd street is closed but I can still get there by…

“YOU’RE NOT LISTENING TO ME AND DOING EXACTLY WHAT I WANT!! LET ME SPEAK TO SOMEONE ELSE!!! SOMEONE HIGHER UP!”

No, it is not like that.

It’s like, “I want you to drive my car to the happy place.”

“OK, it will cost $15.” *Customer hands over a twenty and gets five bucks in change.

Two hours later, the customer meets with the driver at the happy place. *

Customer: “Where’s my car?”

Driver: “I got lost and it took me an hour longer than I thought. Gimme the five bucks back.”

Customer: “Fuck you, gimme my car.”

Driver: "Well, I was going to be very helpful, but not if you take that attitude,’

Regards,
Shodan

[Shodan]

@Nzinga_Seated

There is no question that the company was doing the wrong thing, ethically. The point of the story is that sometimes that happens. And when it does, this idea that the customer has of calmly telling a phone rep that “there is going to be a fix for me” over and over is absolutely impotent and pointless. Sometimes, there is *not *going to be a fix for you.

I think we are using a different definition of the word “impossible”. In the situation you describe, my definition would be “the PC cannot be fixed because the motherboard is fried” or something similar. Your company’s definition seemed to be 'we ripped you off, there is nothing you can do about it, have a nice day."

Frauds and rip-off artists can be dealt with in the same way that I mentioned earlier - by making it more trouble to not give me what I want than it is worth. The customers you ripped off should merely stop into the store one Sunday and explain to everyone shopping there that the store had made a contract with them, and refused to honor it.

Regards,
Shodan

[Rysto]

@Nametag

What I don’t understand is why Chimera felt compelled to tell the customer “I can’t do it that way, I have to do it this way.”

You know, it’s really easy to play Monday Morning Quarterback and come up with the perfect wording when you have all the time in the world to think about it, especially when you know ahead of time what wording is going to set the customer off.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@VinylTurnip

Customer service is about defusing those kind of situations, not digging your heels in and flexing your petty tyrant muscles just because you think you can. It may make you feel powerful, but it’s exactly the opposite of the right thing to do and it gets zero sympathy from me.

Yes, I get a major impression of the OP as being a bit of a jobsworth.

@Beware_of_Doug

I can understand why chimera isn’t responding any longer.

Because his post backfired when it revealed what a shitty customer service rep he is, and he doesn’t want to answer the questions that would further demonstrate how he fucked up? Yeah, I noticed that, too.

@Shodan

Undoing the refund is irrelevant - the company should simply eat that loss, since it was their mistake in the first place.

Exactly.

@cosmosdan

And then the customer starts screaming abuse and he hangs up, which is absolutely the correct thing to do at that point. But acting there wasn’t anything he could have done to maybe avoid the situation is disingenuous. Did he screw up, or just write the OP badly? Hard to tell from what is (as you said) a rant OP, and he’s only human either way. But talking about how he’s being obstructionist to someone who his company screwed up with isn’t going to get him much sympathy from the hoi polloi in the Pit.

See, here you get it. So why is your tongue jammed so far up his ass for the rest of the thread?

@Nzinga_Seated

We took a percentage of the extended warranties and sold them to a third party company…let’s call them XYZ Warranties. Well, all was well and good, and most customers didn’t even know their warranties were sold! Until XYZ Warranties went out of business.

I’m gonna jump on the, “Holy shit, is that even legal?!” train. Ethically disgusting, if nothing else. Shit, your company made money *twice *and then thumbed their nose at the people who paid and trusted them to provide a service.

@Rysto

You know, it’s really easy to play Monday Morning Quarterback and come up with the perfect wording when you have all the time in the world to think about it, especially when you know ahead of time what wording is going to set the customer off.

If you’re too fucking retarded to figure out that telling the customer you need money from them (even if it’s money you’ve mistakenly paid them back) to fix a mistake you made is going to royally piss them off, you need to quit your job and go stock shelves somewhere that you will never be required to talk to another human being.

[Nzinga_Seated]

@Shot_From_Guns

I’m gonna jump on the, “Holy shit, is that even legal?!” train. Ethically disgusting, if nothing else. Shit, your company made money *twice *and then thumbed their nose at the people who paid and trusted them to provide a service.

Well, technically, we often made money three times. On those occasions that we managed to sell support to the burned customer.

[VinylTurnip]

@Rysto

You know, it’s really easy to play Monday Morning Quarterback and come up with the perfect wording when you have all the time in the world to think about it, especially when you know ahead of time what wording is going to set the customer off.

But as **cosmodan **noted, the OP is a “customer service rep with lots of experience”! We’re not talking about him accidentally saying “Niagara Falls” and triggering the customer into a rage— surely an experienced rep would know the difference in effect between “I can’t do that, all I can do is sell you a new plan” and “I apologize for our mistake, and here’s what I’ll do to correct it for you,” even if the steps to be taken are the same. If not, either he’s not that experienced or he hasn’t learned much over the years.

[Risha]

@Shot_From_Guns

See, here you get it. So why is your tongue jammed so far up his ass for the rest of the thread?

Actually, that’s me you’re quoting. Sorry I abandoned this thread last night - I decided that I didn’t feel like being pissed off all night, especially once it became obvious that some people were going to continue to cast the OP in the best light possible, and others in the worst light possible. Somehow, I don’t think this thread is going anywhere at this point.

[MsWhatsit]

@Risha

Actually, that’s me you’re quoting. Sorry I abandoned this thread last night - I decided that I didn’t feel like being pissed off all night, especially once it became obvious that some people were going to continue to cast the OP in the best light possible, and others in the worst light possible. Somehow, I don’t think this thread is going anywhere at this point.

Look, I’ll be happy to cancel this thread for you and resubscribe you to a new thread, but that’s frankly all you’re going to get out of me. Seriously, I’d love to do more but it’s not up to me, it’s up to corporate, and you know how corporate is.

[Risha]

@MsWhatsit

Look, I’ll be happy to cancel this thread for you and resubscribe you to a new thread, but that’s frankly all you’re going to get out of me. Seriously, I’d love to do more but it’s not up to me, it’s up to corporate, and you know how corporate is.

I want to speak to your manager!!!

[Chimera]

I stepped away from the thread for a very simple reason.

It had devolved into being overrun by MORONS (Mobs Of Recreational Outrage NonnyS) who are more interested in piling on and misinterpretting anything stated than in any actual discussion or truth. When that sort of thing happens, it is not in the OPs (whether that be me or anyone else in their own thread) best interests to continue, as nothing they say will do any good, but as it will constantly be misinterpreted, often deliberately, it can certainly do more bad.

Bottom line: There comes a time when you have to stop defending yourself because by doing so you are only giving power to the mob.
People who think Customer Service people can or should never say NO, or that we should never tell anyone something isn’t possible, or that we have to learn how to say things that won’t ever upset anyone obviously have never worked in Customer Service.

I’ve had people demand that we have equipment (currently located in a warehouse over 1,000 miles from them) couriered to their office the same day or THEY’LL SUE!! Obviously the answer is no, because it isn’t physically possible to get the equipment there in that time frame. You can argue all day about how you should frame those words, but I can tell you from experience that for every person who gets upset because you said ‘no’ up front and then explained why, there will be someone who gets upset because you DID NOT just say ‘no’ upfront and gave them a bunch of bullshit. One person needs it sugar coated, the next wants black and white.

When I did computer support, I would regularly have (usually middle aged or older women, but sometimes elderly men) claim that because their email wasn’t working or because they were having problems operating a program, that this meant there was something wrong with their computer and they wanted it replaced RIGHT NOW. The answer is no. Replacing your computer isn’t going to solve your inability to operate it properly, or fix your incorrect email settings.

Likewise I’ve seen plenty of people say “I have a problem, replace my equipment right now!” When asked, they scream “I don’t know what the problem is and I don’t care. I only know that it isn’t working and you’re going to replace it RIGHT NOW!” Sorry, no were not, at least not until you calm down and tell me exactly what is not working. Ultimately, it is not in their best interests or my company’s best interests to replace equipment simply because they have a switch in the wrong position or they don’t know how to operate it properly.

A while back I had a man who claimed to be an attorney, break (his fault) a $99 piece of equipment. When we refused to replace it for free, he demanded a supervisor and got me. The first words out of his mouth were “Here’s what’s going to happen. You’re going to have (item X) couriered to my office within the next two hours, and then you’re going to pay me, at my attorney billing rates of $250 per hour, for the last hour and a half I’ve spent arguing with you people.” Deflated him like a popped balloon when my response was “That’s not going to happen.” But he respected me for it, and at the end of the call he paid the replacement cost and it was overnighted to him.

I had an elderly woman go off on me because I asked for her first name and she thought that was disrespectful.

I had a customer who claimed he was in contact with the FBI and that people on cellphones were walking past his house and hacking into his computer - all because their phones would show up on the bluetooth detection list in the computer. Got real upset when I told him why they were showing up there and advised that it wasn’t possible for a cellphone to be hacking his computer.

The long and short of it is that if you think that a Customer Service Rep should never say anything to upset a customer and has no business being a CSR if they ever do, then you’re a fucking moron who needs to get out more, because in the real world, people get upset for the craziest things and you can never predict what will set off people, especially people you don’t know, aren’t in front of and are only speaking to on the phone for the first time.

[MsWhatsit]

@Chimera

It had devolved into being overrun by MORONS (Mobs Of Recreational Outrage NonnyS)

BURRRNNNNNNNN! Oh, damn! Y’all just got acronymized!

[jonesj2205]

@Chimera

… in the real world, people get upset for the craziest things and you can never predict what will set off people, especially people you don’t know, aren’t in front of and are only speaking to on the phone for the first time.

Still not sure I’m in agreement with you as far as the original call, but on this one I’m with you 100%.

[Nzinga_Seated]

@MsWhatsit

BURRRNNNNNNNN! Oh, damn! Y’all just got acronymized!

YACMU

You are cracking me up.

[Ogre]

See, I don’t for an instant believe that a business is obligated to do anything for you, including wiping your ass and fellating you, in order to gain your business. The instant the customer became uncivil and abusive, Chimera would have been perfectly justified, in my opinion, to hang up the phone, put her name on the Blackball list, and block her phone number.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@Nzinga_Seated

Well, technically, we often made money three times. On those occasions that we managed to sell support to the burned customer.

Yeah, but that time you actually had to give something back (the support). I’m talking about the money-for-nothing bits.

@Risha

Actually, that’s me you’re quoting.

Ah, that makes way more sense! I quoted your post to give it a “right on,” but then I must have cropped out something I multiquoted from the other person. Explains why I was so confused as to why that one post made so much damn sense. :smack:

@Chimera

I stepped away from the thread for a very simple reason. It had devolved into being overrun by MORONS (Mobs Of Recreational Outrage NonnyS) who are more interested in piling on and misinterpretting anything stated than in any actual discussion or truth.

Oh, so that’s why you refused to answer any reasonable questions? Because you wanted to clear up any confusion and engage in discussion? Sounds like someone’s a SHITHEAD.

Seriously Hubristic Idiot Trying Hard to Edit Admitted Deeds.

[Chimera]

@Shot_From_Guns

Oh, so that’s why you refused to answer any reasonable questions? Because you wanted to clear up any confusion and engage in discussion?

Your reading comprehension is as low as your character.