Seriously, do you know of a new car that has a faulty gasket or seal?
A faulty oil pressure sender? Isn’t this picked up by the latest On-Board Diagnostics?
As for the rock, I think that I would notice (and investigate) any impact that was hard enough to damage the oil pan.
And, in any case, if the oil leak is “significant”, won’t there be a lot of oil where I park?
Last thing: I just discovered that my car does not have a dipstick, at least not one that is accessible by a non-mechanic. The car has an oil level sensor, and I can check the oil level if I click a few buttons, wait a minute, and then see it on the dash. But, if I don’t check it and the level gets low, there’s a warning light. And, the on-board diagnositics will detect a defective oil level sensor.
So, for me, I’m done. No more checking the oil level.
Seriously, do you know of a new car that has a faulty gasket or seal?
It’s not impossible. Occasionally even a brand new part is defective. And you’ve got four years in which to break something.
A faulty oil pressure sender? Isn’t this picked up by the latest On-Board Diagnostics?
Not that I know of. OBD deals with drivability and emissions, not basic mechanicals. But even if it were reporting to the computer, how the heck would the computer know that a plausibly good reading is erroneous? The only reference it has to judge it by is…the sender itself. (Clarification: by “fails” I meant ceases to indicate low pressure.)
As for the rock, I think that I would notice (and investigate) any impact that was hard enough to damage the oil pan.
And, in any case, if the oil leak is “significant”, won’t there be a lot of oil where I park?
I don’t claim the scenario is likely, merely that it’s possible. And that it depends on your being oblivious to your surroundings.
What to stop by my dealership sometime? I can usually show you 1 or 2 cars every day that are A) under warranty and B) have an oil leak. It may not be a bad leak, but I can show you leaks.
Nope. Why would it? The OBD system is for emission related faults. The oil pressure sensor does not fall into that category.
Yup some Mercedes & BMW cars don’t have dipsticks at all anymore. There’s supposedly been some problems with the interface between the oil level sensor and the iDrive computer thing on the dipstick-less E90’s, but I haven’t heard of anyone’s engine getting wrecked yet.
The real problem I see with that approach is that not only is there the risk of a faulty sensor letting someone run out of oil, but the problems seem to be with them giving faulty “low oil” messages. If you don’t have a dipstick to confirm this, you might end up severely overfilling the crankcase and that’s almost as bad as running out. You’d think companies that make such expensive cars wouldn’t mind spending the 10 bucks a car or whatever to keep a dipstick on there.
Although OBD-II sets aside codes for oil pressure switches, not every vehicle uses them. In many modern cars, the oil pressure warning light circuit is still a basic, simple one that does not in any way involve involve the computer or OBD system.
An oil pressure switch is more likely to be monitored by the computer if it’s tied into the fuel pump circuit (no oil pressure = no fuel pump). Again, not every vehicle is wired this way. Even the ones that are will not be all the same – some may have one switch for fuel pump activation and a second (non-OBD) for the light or gauge, others may have a single switch providing both functions.
It’s still true that OBD is concerned with drivability/performance and emissions items. It is not, as many people erroneously believe, able to help diagnose anything on the whole car. While the scope of what is considered drivability and emissions related seems to expand over time, if something can’t be reasonably categorized that way it’s not going to be part of OBD-II.
ETA: Forgot to include:
Look at the descriptions for those codes. If that sensor is way out of whack – no reading at all, implausibly low reading, implausibly high reading – it will set a code. If the sensor is dead wrong BUT within the range of legitimate readings, it will not set a code. The computer has no way of knowing that it’s wrong. It can only tell if it’s ridiculously out of range. Moral: you cannot depend on the computer and its sensors to always advise you of problems.
I have run into these stations a few times in my travels. What I usually do is wedge my gasoline cap in the space of the handle to kep the valve open, and then go about my business washing the windows, checking the oil, whatever. Try it sometime.
For those of you that keep mentioning that your car is under warranty, like that fact is some kind of shield against you car developing a problem, Wha?
Just because you have a warranty doesn’t mean something will not fail, maybe even dramatically fail. Just because there is a warranty agreement in place doesn’t mean you are excused from basic vehicle maintenance. I’m an admitted car nut, so I know I’m the exception, but are you people really to busy or disinterested to look under the hood of your own car every once in a while?
My wife and I have 4 cars all told, two are newer daily drivers, and two are older “project/fun” cars. Our two daily drivers are Hondas, known for their dependability and for being generally bulletproof. Know what? I still check my oil approximately every other fill-up. Here is the kicker, though…so does my wife! She knows how to check the oil, and how to check the ATF in her transmission.
We go longer than 3000 miles between oil changes (That’s a whole 'nother argument) and we have had to, on rare occasions, add a 1/2 qt or so between changes.
Waiting for the “low oil” or “low oil pressure” idiot light to come on is to wait until it’s nearly a crisis before doing anything. Not how I want to treat my vehicles.
The issue isn’t whether a car could develop a problem during the warranty period. Of course problems can (and do) happen.
The issue is how likely it is for a new car (built, say, in the past 5 years) to incur engine damage during the warranty period, and the oil pressure light or engine light didn’t go on before the damage occurred, and the engine damage could have been prevented if someone had checked the oil level every week, rather than waiting for the next scheduled oil change.
Is there someone who can provide data on the likelihood of the those events happening? And, if those events happened, would someone provide evidence that the engine repair or replacement would not be covered by warranty?
Hey, nobody wants to be stuck on the highway with a fried engine, and I’m not denying that it can happen with a new car. Just wondering how likely.
Ray Magliozzi has told the story of driving his then-new-still-under-warranty car on the interstate when he saw the oil light come on. His first instinct, of course, was to immediately pull off the road and turn off the engine to prevent further damage.
“Then,” he thought [and I paraphrase], “why should I? The car’s under warranty. If the engine melts, it will be on Chrysler’s tab, not mine. Why should I jeopardize my family’s safety and well-being trying to get off the road as fast as possible?”
He didn’t he moved over, waited until he felt there was a safe place to get off the road, and then did so. And in delaying getting off the road, he did in fact wind up melting the engine, and Chrysler did in fact wind up replacing it due to the defect that caused the problem in the first place.
If the manufacturer can demonstrate that you haven’t changed the oil or knowingly allowed it to run out of oil, they can and will deny your warranty claim. They don’t just hand out engines with no questions asked.
What is easier, checking the oil periodically or breaking down on the side of the road, getting the car towed, getting a dealer to honor the warranty claim, waiting for the repairs, getting the car back, finding they broke your AC in the process, sending it back, and waiting again.
Here’s a scenario. The valve cover gasket on your 2010 vehicle has a manufacturing defect, a small 1/4" spot on the gasket that allows oil to leak down the side of your engine. It’s not a spectacular noticeable event, just a quart or so a week. After a month or so though, you’re almost out of oil, and unlubricated metal-on-metal contact is happening in your brand new engine. It may or may not make it to it’s next oil change, but you’re shortening the usable life of your engine by thousands or tens of thousands of miles. Engine rebuilds are not cheap.
Okay, I agree with the hassle of “getting the car towed” – in my previous post I said “Hey, nobody wants to be stuck on the highway with a fried engine” – but, in your scenario with the defective gasket, I’m still going to take the car to the dealer, wait for the repair, get the car back, find they broke my AC in the process …
Also, are you saying that the engine could leak “a quart or so a week” and I wouldn’t notice any oil where I park my car? And, the oil pressure light won’t go on, and neither will the engine light before there’s damage?
In any case, I’m wondering about whether there’s data on the likelihood of all of this happening: New car, engine damage, no indication from oil pressure light or engine light, and engine damage could have been prevented if oil level had been checked every week.
And, yes, it’s easy to check the engine oil level, so why not just do it, right?
I’ve never had an engine rebuilt. In fact, I’ve never had any engine work done on any of my cars. Been driving for almost 30 years.
Anyway, at this point it seems that I’m just being argumentative, so I’ll stop.
Thanks for the comments.
But when does that happen? At idle when warm, or at your peak RPM when cold? And how do you know that it’s exactly 5.9 quarts? Remember, you mentioned an oil pressure (which is dynamic) gauge, rather than an oil level gauge (which is also somewhat dynamic, in that when oil is circulating through the engine, it’s not in the pan).
My recollection (this was a while ago) is that it was the low oil pressure light. I had a bad crankcase ventilation valve that was causing the engine to burn oil, and hadn’t been checking the oil all that diligently (it is kind of a pain in the ass on my car). I don’t know that BMW makes the distinction between low oil pressure and low (operating) oil level, but I don’t have the manual handy.
In any case - I added 1 quart of oil immediately and the oil level increased to just below the “full” mark on the dipstick. So, 1.1 quarts from the idiot light to full.
EDIT: As an aside - I don’t check the oil frequently because the procedure (according to the manual) is to warm the engine to operating temperature, shut it off, wait 5 minutes, and then check the dipstick. I rarely find myself with 5 minutes to spare just sitting around waiting, and I’m such an OCD nut that I don’t trust the reading anyway if it is not within 30 seconds of 5 minutes.
