Yeah, I always wondered about that too. Weren’t those guys harrassed and killed by flag-waving conservatives?
To me, motorbiking’s image is about autonomy and independence, but most of motorbiking culture that I’ve witnessed is actually about social identity, being part of a homogeneous group of “outsiders” (or wannabe rebels), and adhering to the social norms of that group (and mocking those that don’t abide by them). Autonomy and independence is linked to liberalism, while order, structure, and community is linked to conservatism (source: Jonathan Haidt’s book “The Happiness Hypothesis”).
I don’t know how true it is now or then but a friend of mine who owned a Honda Gold Wing in New Zealand about 20 years ago told me that it was more “American” than a Harley. The Gold Wing was made in the US whereas the Harley was mostly made in Korea.
Motorcycling is a boys’ club*, and like any other boys’ club, it attracts a lot of idiots. I am a fan of pro wrestling, pro and college football, monster trucks and heavy metal. All of these activities/scenes attract both conservatives and racists in greater proportion than liberals and nonracists.
Libertarian values, yes. Hardly conservative values. Conservatives have no greater interest in individual independence and self reliance than liberals; they simply want to regulate different expressions of independence and self reliance.
*Yes, yes, yes, I know there are women who ride bikes and watch wrestling and football and so on. However, there are way more males than females doing these things.
I am not sure what political party it is but if I work hard to earn something, I want the choice to give it away to those who don’t work, not be forced to give it away.
Racism is a part of 1% life style.
Ride American, was from the WWII vets who started the life style. Gee, go figure… It is just a hold over.
A high value is placed on structure with consequences. Gee, sounds military don’t it? Gee, go figure.
HA was/is not the only, just the most famous. Not nearly the most bad ass.
You do not have to kill, have tats, you can retire, etc…
::: of course this is just more BS to add the metric butt load that is already in this thread…
snerk
Bawahahahaha
::: shakes head and wanders away ::::
I’m pretty sure Gold Winnebagos sold in the U.S. are made in the U.S. I’ve never heard of Harleys being made outside of the U.S., although IIRC they do have Japanese suspensions, electronics, and possibly carbs.
But a lot of people object to American-made vehicles that have a Japanese nameplate.
It’s funny that so many people in this thread seem to be equating Republican with “racist” and Democrat with “non-racist”. I grew up in Detroit, where you couldn’t throw a stone without hitting a white Democrat voter (blue collar workers loyal to their unions) who didn’t care much for Japanese people (for “stealing” the auto jobs) or black people.
It has been my experience that open racism correlates more with economic status than political ideology. When you’re on the bottom rung of society’s ladder you need a scapegoat for your anger about your economic situation. When you haven’t had much educational opportunity you don’t know enough to hide your racism. I would attribute the racism among bikers of lower socioeconomic status more to that than Republicanism.
I made a point of listing conservatives, racists, liberals and nonracists separately in my post.
However, the Republican Party used has used racism as part of its campaign strategy within the last fifty years, while the Democratic Party has not- and it would not be wholly unfair to say that the Republican platform is more attractive to racists than the Democratic platform (though the Republican platform itself may be wholly reasonable, egalitarian, equitable and inclusive, etc.)
I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say it has NOTHING to do with it, but it’s not quite as prevalent as it’s made out to be in this thread, but essentially, you’re spot-on, Sam.
The majority of the H-D owners I know are a bundle of contradictions. They’re slightly to incredbly jingoistic, gun-owning, flag-waving, union democrats in blue collar jobs. I don’t run in the accountant-as-biker crowd so I don’t know personally how they are, but aside from all of those things there comes a certian pseudo-superiority from the ownership of a H-D or cruiser which is probably different to everybody but has roots in what Sam talked about.
I have a Kawasaki Dual Sport (which is going to be a BMW Dual Sport before long) and after 2 years of riding I’ve found the H-D crowd overall to just be honest-to-goodness snobs about the iron they’re straddling. My bike is twice as capable as any V-Twin cruiser yet I get crap because not only is my bike foreign, it has a dirt bike look to it. Every once in a while I’ll stop at a ‘biker bar’ to wet the whistle and talk will turn to what I’m riding. I’ll catch all kinds of hell from the H-D crowd until two things happen, one, they can’t sling their fat asses up over the 35" high seat and I tell them; if this bike is good enough for the US Marines, it’s damn sure good enough for me.
I’ve found on more than one occasion that after their small minds are blown by the fact that Marines ride this same thing they can’t even life their legs high enough to sit on, they just sit silently and drink their beer.
I don’t like Harley. I did for a while, but I think the idea of an air-cooled motorcycle in 2009 is slightly retarded. You absolutely don’t have to cook your (or like a) hot dog on your bike. Further, it’s an extra $Hundred Dollars for anything you buy for your bike, which is foolish and the loud pipe thing makes me insane.
brewha, can you elaborate on what demographic predominates on the forum in your OP? The outlaw bikers are a very different bunch from the exec/not-so-yuppie/HOG members, and your question can’t even be discussed rationally until we know who you’re talking about.
Every single thing in that linked article is bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit through and through, from idiots who know NOTHING about firearms. Richard Poplawski didn’t use an “AK-47 assault rifle,” he used a semi-automatic (semi-automatic - do you know the difference between that and fully-automatic) rifle that looks like an AK-47. Not an assault rifle, a semi-automatic rifle. This name game is actually a huge distortion of facts and logic by the anti-gun movement. In any case the “assault weapons” that the Dems want banned are used in a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of all murders (and rifles, in general, are used in something like only 7 percent of gun crimes - cheap junk guns like .25s and .32s account for the vast majority.) And this little gem:
is absolute, outright, shameless stinking bullshit. You go to any gun shop and tell ME where the “cheap Eastern European AK-47s are.” These people don’t know ANYTHING about the firearms market. First of all, importation of ALL military-style rifles, whether they are automatic or semi-automatic, from European countries is forbidden. It was forbidden not by Bill Clinton but by George H. Bush and Bob Dole, back in the early 90s - the “Import Ban,” which makes it COMPLETELY impossible to import AK-47s or any other military rifles legally from any other country. The “Violence Policy Center” is getting their information from inside of their ass, because I can absolutely guarantee you that what they said is fabricated from whole cloth. If you don’t believe me, call ANY gun shop in your area and ask if you can get a cheap Bulgarian AK-47 from them.
What are legal to import, are parts kits. PARTS KITS, not full rifles, and NOT fully automatic or selective fire trigger groups, etc. What is happening here, as has happened for the past decade (has NOTHING to do with anyone “lifting any restrictions”) is PARTS are being imported, parts from old dismantled Bulgarian and Romanian AK-47-style rifles. These PARTS are then being fitted to United States-made recievers, and then the complete rifles are sold. They are by no means cheap. A Bulgarian AK-47-style semiautomatic (semiautomatic…semiautomatic…SEMI FUCKING AUTOMATIC) rifle will run you a “cheap” 700 dollars, if you’re lucky.
And after all that…how many of these expensive, military-style, semi-automatic rifles are used in gun crimes every year? uhhh…duhhh…uhh…durrr…uhhh…
And yet they should still be banned. Because they look scary, don’tchaknow.
This rant is less directed at you than it is at the author of that imbecilic article. There isn’t a single word of truth in it. Not one.