Recommend a 250cc or less motorbike

Yeah, good link, cas. I was just gonna suggest the XJ 600 N: basically a Diversion (full family name XJ 600 S) without fairing, and a standard bike, for sure.

Here is the list of Yamaha motorcycles available in the U.S.:

Motocross
YZ85
YZ125
YZ250
YZ250F
YZ450F

Dual Purpose
TW200
XT225

Off-Road
PW50
PW80
TT-R90/E
TT-R125/E
TT-R125L/LE
TT-R225
TT-R250
WR250F
WR450F

Scooters
Vino
Vino Classic
Zuma

Super Sport
FZ1
YZF600R
YZF-R1
YZF-R6

Super Sport Touring
FJR1300

Touring/Cruisers
Road Star
Road Star Midnight Star
Road Star Silverado
Road Star Warrior
Royal Star Venture
V Max
V Star Classic
V Star Custom
V Star Silverado
V Star 1100 Classic
V Star 1100 Custom
V Star 1100 Silverado
Virago 250

The FZ1 that casdave mentions looks a lot like the XJ600 – tubular frame, similar lines, etc., but liquid cooled instead of air cooled. Maybe I’m showing my age, but I remember when the FZRs came out in the '80s. We called them “Fizzers”.

Anyway, the FZ1 looks like the only standard-class bik Yamaha has; except for maybe the FJ1300.

The funny thing about the Seca II is that when it came out all of the motorcycle magazines gushed about it. They all sung its praises. When Suzuki introduced the 600 Bandit a couple of years later, the same people were talkin’ trash about the Seca II. They weren’t just saying that the Bandit was a better bike – they were totally dissing the Seca II. It’s good to know that at least the Yurpeans can still get it!

Oh yeah, that 250 Virago looks like it might be a hoot to ride around. Too small for me, but I totally dig it. Maybe have a 250 Ninja as well.

It sucks not having a garage. :frowning:

A Virago? Surely you jest. That’s a friggin’ chopper!

FWIW, we call the FZR models “Fazers” over here. And I wouldn’t call an FJR 1300 “standard class”. That thing has more grunt than most supersports (about 150 BHP IIRC)! Definitely not a starter bike.

I don’t jest. And please don’t call me “Shirley”.

Cruisers are not my style, but I wouldn’t mind having one in my stable just for grins. Heck, I’d even have a Harley as a fourth or fifth bike. :wink:

I should have said the FJ1300 is “the closest thing to a standard” in their line-up. Definitely not a starter bike (even if the OP were not restricted to 250cc or less).

If you had a Harley, you’d need at least one other bike to be able to ride on a daily basis. :wink:

  • that’s weird.

Then again, so is calling the FZ1/Fazer1000 a “Supersport” - going from the tests I’ve read, it’s a mean street machine for popping wheelies and getting arrested, not at all a liter-class track weapon.

In Yurp, Yamaha sells the littler Fazer, the 600: http://www.yamaha-motor.dk/page.cfm?pageID=83025 - at 95 HP, it’s not quite as bad-ass as the Fazer 1000 with 143.

Admittedly, I’m not crazy about the styling of the Fazer - someone once compared its looks to a dropped set of spanners - but by all accounts it’s a great bike to ride. Is the 600 standard on its way out ? That would suck.

Aren’t the other companies making them? (I’ve been riding Yamahas since I was ten years old, so I don’t often browse H-K-S.)

Motorcycles today seem more specialized than earlier ones. I got my first bike when I was 12 (the one I road when I was 10 was dad’s). There were two versions: Motocross and Enduro. The Enduro was exactly the same as the MX, except it had lighting. Or you could get a Street Bike. If you wanted a cruiser, you’d get a Harley. The Japanese companys made motorcycles that all looked pretty much the same – the UJM, or “Universal Japanese Motorcycle”. :wink: (Actually, they all look pretty much the same now, but being more specialized there is more variety.) They style for street bikes at the time was along the lines of the Honda CB750, which looked like the similar-sized Kawasaki, which looked like the Suzuki, which looked like the Yamaha. There were still 1960s hold-outs like the Norton. (I thought the Norton 850 Commando was the coolest-looking bike around, and wanted one when I grew up.)

In 1977 I started seeing more plastic. I got a '76 Yamaha 250 Enduro because A) it was cheaper, and dad was buying a pair; and B) the '77s looked funky with the new styling. In the early-'80s Yamaha came out with the Seca (which doesn’t look like the Seca II, BTW). IIRC, it was offered in 550cc; but there may have been a 750cc model. I don’t remember. They did make a turbocharged version. Ooh, I wanted one of those!

I think it was 1985 or 1986 when I saw the Yamaha FZ600. This bike looked unlike any of the others I’d seen. It was a sport bike! It had a full fairing and looked fast just sitting there. I bought an issue of Playboy because they had an article on the new bikes and there was a picture of the FZ600. (And the Denise Crosby layout was a bonus. :wink: ) From then on, sportbikes really seemed to take off.

It was then that I noticed that motorcycles were evolving into their own niches. Instead of having a UJM that you would modify to suit your style, HYKS were making “factory-modified” bikes. If you wanted a “chopper”, you’d buy a cruiser off the showroom floor. If you wanted a racer, you wouldn’t buy the fastest machine they had and then modify it with fairings and special tuning and whatnot; you’d buy a sportbike. If you wanted to ride off-road, you’d buy an off-road bike. (The Enduro went away, and we got “dual-sports” that were a poor replacement – and the choice of displacements was limited.)

And so it is today. HYKS understand that different people buy different bikes; so instead of making a UJM that people have to modify to fit their needs, they make purpose-built bikes. With more variety in styles, they look at what people are buying and drop the unpopular ones. (Which is kinda hard to do when you only have a few styles, but necessary when you have many.)

So is the 600 Standard on its way out? I haven’t really been looking. It seems that most people buy cruisers, tourers, or sportbikes. An older person might want a tourer like the Honda Gold WInnebago – I mean “Goldwing” – because they have probably gotten the Ricky Racer out of their system. They want something bigger and more comfortable than a Standard. To someone who likes cruisers, a Standard isn’t “cool”. Younger riders like to go fast. (Heck I like to go fast! Maybe I’m young for my age?) Standards are not as fast as sportbikes, but more importantly for a “kid” is that they don’t look as cool as a street racing machine.

Standard-class bikes are a compromise. They’re faster and handle better than a cruiser. They’re more comfortable than a sportbike. They’re even comfortable enough for making long-ish trips. (I’ve ridden my Seca II from L.A. to Las Vegas, Lake Havasu, and San Francisco.) They’re also inexpensive, which makes them a good choice for a “first bike” or for someone who’s looking at the cost/performance ratio.

But being a compromise, Standards tend to get overlooked. Why spend $5,000 for a Standard and then get rid of it to buy a sportbike later? Why not just spend $8,000 for the bike you “really want”? Since there are small cruisers like the Yamaha Virago and the Honda Rebel, a cruiser-type will probably opt for one of those on his or her way to a big cruiser than for a standard-class. Someone who wants a tourer is probably older and can afford to get a tourer first instead of buying s standard. Something like the Yamaha XJ600 or Suzuki 600 Bandit or the old GS-550 would appeal more to an aspiring sportbike rider. And they did. There are lots of XJ600s and Bandits and GS550s around. But I think, starting about five or ten years ago, people started bypassing standards to go straight to the sportbikes.

This does not bode well for Standards. I think that there should always be an inexpensive option for motorcyclists. The Standard is the logical choice. But with the coming of “niche” bikes and the establishment of the same over the last 15 years or so, there may be little economic incentive for HYKS to continue making “entry level” rides. Kids can learn on dirt bikes, since they can’t legally ride on the road anyway. Young people just starting out can buy any one of the thousands of used standard-class bikes that already exist. (A used bike is a good choice because they’re cheap to buy and it matters little if you crash them.)

Finally, on Standards, I think it would be fun to go way back to the '50s. Royal Enfield is still making their 500cc model, which is virtually the same as the older ones. They’re not California-legal, and they top out at maybe 70mph. But they look great, and it would be fun to have a single-cylinder “thumper”.

  • but there’s not a lot out there, really.

Non-cruiser, non-racer street machines under 1000 cc:

Suzuki has the Bandit 600 (it’s with a fairing, but I’ll still call it a standard) and the SV650 with and without fairing. (The SV650 is a blast.) All of these are specifically designed for street riding. WTF, the first thing I did with my Bandit 600 was to put a 3/4 fairing on it…

The Katana 600/750 started out as the old-racer-in-new-decals, but it has been revamped. IOW, it’s a full-fairing machine, but not really one for the track. You can use all of those for touring, of course - the line between a faired standard and a small tourer is kinda blurry, IMHO.

Honda - the Nighthawk 750. In Yurp, we get the Honda Hornet, a nifty little unfaired 600 cc number, again designed for street riding and introduced in 2001.

Kawazaki - hm. The ZR-7S has a half-fairing, but it has the upright seating of a streetbike. Qualifies as a standard in my book. The ZZR600 is sold as a streetbike, but it’s very much an older 600 cc race model.

And that’s all she wrote. Looks like Suzuki is the primary provider for the not-too-insane streetbike niche.

I agree that the cruiser crowd will probably go directly to one of the baby cruisers. They have the look, they’re easy to ride, and it’s not as if raw horsepower is that much of a deal anyway.

OTOH, a sportsbike is not really a good learning tool.

But if the learners are learning on yesteryears’ standard bikes, what’ll happen when they leave the pool ? Will people start picking up second-hand GSXR-600’s to learn on ? That’d suck.

But it looks like Suzuki, at least, is seeing a market for starter streetbikes.

And yeah, the 50’s look is neat. Triumph Bonneville, anyone ?

Personally, I’d love to own a Danish “Nimbus” - (scroll down on this page: Nimbus Motorcycles)

  • pre-war model w. longitudinally mounted in-line four, cardan drive. My brother-in-law owns one, but the fiend’s not willing to part with it.

I think that the class depends on the frame, rather than the fairing. Standard-class bikes tend to have tubular frames, while the sport-bikes have those massive box-section frames which are stronger and more rigid than tub frames. The frames have geometry such that the rider is in a more up-right position than on the sportbikes. Of course cruisers have tubular frames, but the shape is different.

And since Spiny Norman is linking to a '50s-style bike, here’s that Royal Enfield I want. (Woohoo! *22 bhp!**)

Don’t they still build that Royal Enfield in India? Maybe you could import one! Well, not that it would pass the Cali emissions test, bu anyway. :smiley: