Artistically inclined Dopers,
My daughter is becoming more interested in making her own films and has asked for a camera for her birthday/Christmas. I'd like to find a digital camcorder or film camera that is affordable and has the most flexibility to do creative things when she creates her short films.
Thanks for your help,
Shibb
How old is your daughter, and how much experience does she have with cameras or camcorders?
She’ll be 15 in a week or so. Not that much camera experience. Any camcorders she’s used have been borrowed from friends. She’s smart, but not particularly technical.
I wouldn’t spend a huge amount on a camcorder (at least not a first one) but there are some features that are vital if she is going to eventually do good things with it:
Manual focus - The auto focus systems in current cameras are excellent, but one vital element of film is depth of field and the ability to have a character in focus and the background out of focus. Also, there are any number of situations where autofocus will screw you up by changing focus to something that has moved into the foreground. There are inexpensive camcorders with manual focus.
Manual exposure. Again, the automatic exposure systems of most cameras are excellent, but you need to be able to override them to achieve artistic expression. If one is shooting a band on a stage or a school play or even people outside on a sunny day, you often need to manually adjust the exposure to get the image you wish.
Manual audio levels. Yet another manual over-ride. The automatic systems work OK for most situations, but having a manual audio recording level control is vital if you are going to get decent sound - otherwise the background sound level with rise and fall when your characters are not talking.
Those are the three biggies.
OK, format. I would immediately eliminate from consideration tape and disc systems. They are too fragile, losable and far too expensive for the amount of shooting any budding auteur needs to do. I’d also eliminate hard disc based systems - again, fragile and the need to wait to copy material off the hard drive can be a creativity killer.
Personally, I’d go with an SD card based system (NOT Sony’s SONY-only Memory Stick). SD (specifically the high capacity SDHC ones) are cheap, rugged and readers are built into nearly every computer. You can pull one out and stick a new one in like a tape, but they are not as fragile. You can find them for sale in any drug store.
I’m a big fan of Canon’s camcorders. I shoot mostly concerts and the manual features are vital for that, but they also came in useful when shooting a friend’s student film.
Is there a budget goal?
I forgot to mention, don’t even consider getting a non-HD camera. You can find HD ones for so little money that it makes no sense.
One of my cameras is a Canon Vixia HF200, which is no longer a current model. But most of it’s capability seems to be included in the Canon Canon Vixia HF-R11. It lists for $699.99 on Canon’s site, but Amazon has it for $279. That’s a pretty impressive discount.
It has manual exposure, focus and audio level. It has a 20x lens and an automatic lens cover.
It is tiny, 2.5" x 2.4" x 4.9" and weighs 9.5 oz., and doubles as a still camera. This is one that she could have with her nearly everywhere.
It does have one breathtakingly stupid design feature - you have to take it off the tripod to change the memory card! But reading the specs, it has 32 gigs of internal memory and can record for more than five hours on internal memory.
The included editing software is crap, but any budding filmmaker will look elsewhere for that anyway.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, it can shoot in 24 frame per second mode. I have no use for it myself, but it is vital if she does make something amazing and it needs to be transferred to film.
Gaffa, thanks for all of the great input. I don’t have a specific price range in mind, but I’d like to keep it cheap since she could outgrow it or get outpaced by the technology.
Under $300 for an HD camera is pretty darn cheap. And it opens a world of other stuff for future holidays. For instance, I’m waiting for one of these to arrive - I bought it on EBay for just over $50!
I went ahead and got the one you linked since I could get it (and some other stuff) shipped free on Amazon, hopefully ahead of her birthday. Will let you know how it goes. Unfortunately I can’t see your Youtube link from my current location.
Get her a Bolex. That’ll teach her to plan her shots carefully! 
Sounds like you want her to remake Primer.
I hope it works out well for her and you! The link is to a demo of a Manfrotto ModoSteady, an inexpensive knock-off of a Steadycam Merlin, the stabilizer for small cameras.
I, too, am interested in purchasing a camcorder so I was looking at your links and wanted to point something out for anyone else looking at them. Your Amazon link is not for an HF-R11, but for the Canon HF-R100.
Here is the HF-R11 on Amazon, currently selling for $556.00.
Here is the HF-R100 on the Canon website, for an estimated retail price of $379.99.
And ShibbOleth, it looks like the HF-R100 does not have internal flash memory like the HF-R11 does, so make sure you have a memory card for it when you gift it.
Opps! My mistake. I confused the two.
Thanks for the information. I was actually able to cancel the camera from my order, and see that the Canon Vixia HF-R11 is available at Costco for $379.99. I’ll probably just get that one. Feel free to check that link to see if we’re talking about the same camera.
Sorry about the confusion. The manual for the HF-R10, HF-R11 and HF-R100 are the same damn manual, leading me to confuse the two. Reading through the manual, the HF-R100 has no internal memory, the HF-R10 has 8 gig and the HF-R11 has 32 gig. All three have the manual features I mentioned.
Thanks, the CNET review I saw didn’t make things much clearer. I’ll check them out in person this weekend, then figure out where to get the best deal.
Update: The current CostCo flyer has a coupon for this camera that gives an additional $50 off.
Further update: I bought this camera myself, so I have put my money where my mouth is. Feel free to PM me if I can be of assistance learning it.