I’m probably more of a hammock camper than tent. But, at least in my experience they are indeed much colder. Its mostly because it is very difficult to have the same insulation under you that you get with a pad and the actual ground - instead you have all this cold air under you that try to block with a pad, or a an under quilt etc. Its very comfortable, and I love not having to find flat ground (I can grab 2 trees on the side of a steep mountain) but its tougher to stay warm. Also, sleeping bags don’t do much bottom insulation, since your body weight compresses the down leaving no insulating loft.
I can get behind this sentiment for the camp axe, but a knife and basic fire starting tools are neither heavy nor cumbersome and can save your life in an emergency. There is no excuse to deliberately go into the wild without them. Even primitive survivalist tutors and military SERE trainers all agree on this point. If your pack is so loaded down, or your conditioning so poor that a few measly ounces makes a difference you are doing it wrong. By all means eschew the axe, but a knife and fire starting tools are essential basics you hope you never have to depend upon.
I’m a little concerned about what is being described as a ‘camp stove’. Make sure you are carrying something meant for backpacking and not one of the those heavy, two burner, like-a-metal-suitcase- things…
We were up in the sierras this summer after a very wet winter, and the mosquitos were unbearable without mosquito nets for your head. If there is a lot of water where you are going, consider this. It was a real ‘quality of life’ issue for us.
If he NEEDS (i.e. life or death) to build a fire, he still doesn’t need an ax. He can start it with small tinder he finds in the area, and then throw a big ass fucking branch on there and let the fire eat at it without having to hack at it. And in that life or death situation, you don’t need to be wasting energy cutting a perfectly good big branch into slightly better smaller pieces of branch.
That is a terrible place to be carrying an ax. He’s not hacking through a rainforest, and doesn’t need it at a moment’s notice. Stow it safely in your pack, away from swinging arms and your abdomen.
Any camp axe will come with a leather cover that covers over the head (blade) and snaps closed. The belt is a perfectly safe place to carry the axe.
Why add more weight to the pack when you could carry it on the hip and thereby distribute the weight to a different part of your body instead of having it weigh on your back?
For any reasonable pack, the two are utterly equivalent. Excepting UL, any reasonably sized pack already offers hip support, and enough adjustment to move the load to any preferred balance between shoulders and hips. More weight is more weight.
What’s with all the boots? Good approach shoes/trail runners/regular running shoes are fine IME for much longer than a 3-day junket.
Shelter.
Food/water.
Clothing.
Get them locked down and you’re in like Flint.
No one needs an axe on a hike unless you’re going to play Grizzly Adams and build a log cabin in the woods. Not only is it possibly dangerous to make a wood fire, and for that reason illegal in many places (including the area the OP is supposed to be going if the conditions are too dry when he goes), but even a light hatchet is heavy. You could carry several other pieces of gear in its place. A good knife is necessary, an axe or hatchet is not.
Even assuming catastrophic equipment loss and weather conditions — stranding you without a tent in a snowstorm for example — you can weather out a blizzard with a tiny fire if you build your emergency shelter even halfway right. Large fires get too hot to get close to, so you roast on one side while freezing on the other. Only frigging idiots build fires like that.
Good clothing and effective shelter keeps you warm. A fire is semi-useful for cooking, it’s pretty to look at, and has the potential of burning down hundreds of thousands of acres of wilderness. That’s about the extent of a campfire’s usefulness. A good camping stove is much, much better, and you can actually use it inside a tent if the conditions are deplorable outside.
The lighter and more efficiently you pack, the more enjoyable your trip will be. The longest and hardest hike I went on was in the Sierra Nevada mountains in the fall; about 40 miles of rough territory over 6 days. I went through three winnowing repacks and one of the more experienced hikers still found a few things to eliminate or replace. Even with a comparatively light load, that pack gets damn heavy after a while. Conditions were quite cold at night and changeable during the day, so a chunk of what I was carrying was clothes.
Here are two resources for figuring out what you should carry.
This is a trail hike, not a wilderness hike. Don’t overpack.
I’m going to guess you haven’t carried a backpack made in the last 25 years. Any somewhat decent pack these days is going to shift nearly all of the pack’s weight to your hips.
Find a hiking club or search meetup.com for hiking groups in your area. Chose a easier one but not too easy that is happening soon and go. Once there observe what others have and talk to people there.
You should find that hikers are very helpful.
I won’t argue against a small knife, I said I carry a small swiss army type (mostly for the scissors to be honest) though my definition of fire starting tools are a couple of mini bic lighters - lighter, easier, and more reliable than anything else you could bring.
And a “few measly ounces” won’t make a difference, but once those various forms of measly ounces add up to pounds and pounds, then it will make a difference.
I have a spreadsheet with the weight of every single piece of equipment I own to the half ounce. This way I can play with different lists - its truly amazing how tacking on justa couple of little things here and there (an ax, a 3rd pair of socks, etc) suddenly change your base (before food/water) from 18 pounds to 25 pounds - and that is a huge difference when covering miles and elevation over multiple days.
But as many say - hike your own hike. If you are comfortable with a very heavy pack and want lots of extra things, then go for it. But, I was just trying to make sure that the OP, who is new, understands that many of those things are not needed.
Fine for a trail hike on a relatively flat, groomed trail. Uncomfortable with any load on your back and risky if you aren’t accustomed to carrying a decent load on your back. Also, not recommended for someone who is new to backpacking as the lack of conditioning (unless you are a regular runner or athlete) and ankle support enhances the risk of ankle sprain. Also, regular running shoes (if you mean road runners) have terrible traction in loose, uneven terrain. Ankle sprain is a common serious injury that can otherwise be prevented and can have real serious consequences. Plus, it pretty much ruins every hike. Why chance it?
I have nothing to add to all of the above recommendations, except to say that your two most important decisions to make are on your boots and your pack. Get fitted for both. If you have a budget, spend a respectable chunk of it on these two items and you won’t regret it meaning don’t cheap out on your boots or your pack.
Also, don’t walk into an outfitter and insist on Merrell boots. Merrell has not cornered the market for decent boots. There are comparable and better boots, but brand doesn’t matter as much as fit does. If you find a brand that fits you better than Merrell --and every brand will fit differently-- then go for it as long as it is a quality boot. A good outfitter can give you very useful feedback on quality and whether the boots will meet your needs and then there’s also customer reviews to get an idea on performance and quality.
And as mentioned, take some time to break your boots in. Boots with synthetics in the uppers are lighter and quicker to break in than full-grain leather boot. If you’re carrying significant weight 25 lbs +, make sure the boots are reinforced with a nylon shank to eliminate flexing. You’ll be able to hike a lot longer before your feet fatigue.
While breaking in the boots you’ll also be conditioning your body for stiff boots and that takes time as well. That being said, if you decide to continue backpacking, lots of light hiking (or trail running) in trail runners is great preparation and will enhance your endurance significantly.
Even though I said it earlier in the thread I just wanted to come back to this. The best pair of boots are the ones that fit you. It’s almost impossible to recommend specific brands in footwear. Try on several and find what works for you.
Folks have buried you in advice, so I’m just going to give you some basic tips:
Socks: Pack extra ones. You’ll never need the extra socks if you bring them. You will always need them if you don’t bring them. Maybe you have sweaty feet. Maybe you will end up stepping into a creek or something. You never know, and they’re not exactly heavy or bulky to pack.
I can second the vote for Merrlls, I’ve got a pair of their hiking shoes, and they’re nice. The choice of hiking boots vs. hiking shoes comes down to weight more than anything else, from what I understand. High-topped boots give extra support but limit how much your ankles can flex, which could maybe give you other problems. If you prefer high-topped boots, I have recently fallen in love with a pair of Rocky-brand S2V combat boots.
Sunblock and bug spray. That weird Off smell is far less unpleasant than mosquito bites.
Oh, and of course, make sure you have water taken care of. You will need to drink a lot of it if you are going to be on the move all day. Camelbaks are nice, basically a backpack water pouch with a drinking tube. They make full-on backpacks with a pouch to put the water reservoir in, or you can just stick one inside of a normal backpack or attach it to the outside of your backpack with a carabiner or some cord.
18? :eek: Even when you add food, my entire pack rarely goes over 10. If I drop the tent it goes even lower. And my arms still get numb despite the tummy strap.
Well, 10 with everything is “ultralight”. Normal “lightweight” I would say with food/water is under 25. Also, I was basing my little example on my last trip which did include a 2lb bear canister and bear spray as well!!
But this could be a good lesson - care to list out what makes up your base weight (before food/water) and I’ll do mine? This could give the OP and others perspective on options and different philosophies here.
Greetings! After lurking for quite some time I have decided to join the SDMB so I could respond to your post about advice for camping and hiking gear. I love backpacking and wilderness camping. Its my primary hobby and since 2007 I’ve spent a total of seven months living out of a backpack and sleeping under the stars. There have beens some good suggestions so far and some that are less than useful for a 3 day backpacking trip on a well travelled and marked trail. Ultimately it is up to you to decide what you want since you will be carrying it, but here are my thoughts:
#1: Weight is EVERYTHING!!!
#2: Weight is EVERYTHING!!!
Ounces add up into pounds very quickly and it’s very easy to overpack. You will be miserable carrying anything over 30 - 35 pounds. The lighter the better! FWIW I just got back from a 34 day trip on the Appalachian Trail in New England and I was carrying about 30 pounds.
Pack: I have an Osprey Atmos 65 (size medium) backpack. Its 4000 cubic inches of internal volume and weighs about 3.5 pounds empty. Anything larger than that is probably overkill for the trip you are taking. It’s an expensive pack, I think the retail is $240 (I got mine on sale for $150). It’s very comfortable for loads of around 30 pounds and gets maxed out around 40 pounds. A great pack but you will be fine with something less expensive. Check around with backpacking stores in your area, a lot of places will rent a pack to you for very little money. This might be the best way to go if you are just getting into the sport. If you choose to buy, Kelty makes good (albeit heavier) packs for $150 or less. I would recommend an internal frame pack. They are usually lighter and more comfortable to wear, just make sure it fits well. The hip belt should rest on the top of your hips (this is very important for the load bearing suspension system to work properly) and will support the bulk of the weight. Have someone measure your torso length (google: “measuring backpack torso length” for instructions) and get the right sized pack.
Sleep System: You will need a sleeping bag and a sleeping pad. I have an EMS MountainLite 20 degree Down Bag and an old Therm-A-Rest RidgeRest Sleeping Pad. For an October adventure you will want a bag rated 20 degrees or lower(15 or 0 degrees). Bags come in two flavors: Down and Synthetic. Down generally means goose down and has several advantages. It is lighter, packs down smaller so it takes up less space inside your pack, and insulates better than the synthetic fillings. The disadvantages of Down filled bags are cost and vunerability to water. Goose Down will not keep you warm if it is wet. Do not let a Down bag get wet! A little moisture will not be a problem, but keep it as dry as possible. My EMS bag costs roughly $230 retail (another great deal for me, got it on sale for half price) and you could easily spend $500+ on a nice Down bag. There are places that sell inexpensive Down bags like Campmor, check out the Campmor brand Down bags ($130 or so for a 20 degree bag). As for Synthetic Bags: there are numerous types of synthetic fillings on the market, but they all perform about the same. The advantages of Synthetic Bags are low cost and the abitily to keep you warm even if it gets wet. The disadvantages are weight and bulk. Synthetic bags are roughly 1-2 pounds heavier than Down bags of the same rating and take up a lot more space(read: 1/3 total volume) inside your pack. Synthetic Fills do not compress when they get wet and will still insulate you enough to keep warm. You can purchase a good synthetic bag for $140 or less. Brands to check out include The North Face and L.L. Bean. Campmor.com has a large selection of bags at good prices.
As for a Sleeping Pad, its primary funtion is to insulate your body from the ground. Whatever suface you are sleeping on will conduct heat away from your body and you will get very cold without some good insulation underneath you. Your sleeping bag is not enough because the material on the bottom of the bag will compress under your weight and provide little to no insulation. Bags are designed to have a Pad under them. A Sleeping Pad’s secondary funtion is comfort. Pads also come in two flavors: Closed-Cell Foam(CCF) and Open-Cell Foam(OCF). CCF pads are inexpensive, lightweight and waterproof. They range from $10-$50 and are 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch in thickness. I would recommend buying a CCF pad (thats what I use) from Dick’s Sporting Goods or Evil-Mart for ten bucks. It’s not too comfy but it will do the job. If you want to spend a little more look into the RidgeRest or Z-Lite CCF Pads from Therm-A-Rest. They are a little more comfortable and cost around $30-$40. Open-Cell Foam expands in thickness and is way more comfy but will absord water like a sponge. Almost all OCF pads have a waterproof cover on them and are inflatable. They can range from 1 to 3 inches in thickness when inflated and $50-$200 in price. Therm-A-Rest makes a number of OCF pads that insulate well and are quite comfy. The disadvantages of an OCF pad are weight and vunerability to puntures(which will render them nearly useless). Figure on a pound or more for an inflatible pad.
More info to follow
I carried more than 10 lbs of schoolbooks in a normal school backpack with no hip support (actually, my schoolbooks were clocked at 22lbs, once) and no arm numbness. I would expect any child 12+ to be easily able to carry 10 lbs without any special equipment.
If your arms truly get numb from 10lbs, there is something FAR wrong with how your equipment fits.
Here is my typical before food/water pack, for cooler nights (20’s):
MSR Hubba Tent 3.28
Jacks R Better Quilt 1.50
Therma rest Prolite 1.56
Total Sleep 3.06
Hat 0.09
Glove liners 0.10
Base layer pants 0.44
Long sleve base shirt 0.69
1pr socks 0.22
Montbell UL down jacket 0.46
fleece 0.15
Marmot Mica rain jacket 0.44
Total Clothing 4.15
cooking pot 0.29
alcohol stove 0.01
fuel bottle (full - ~4 meals) 0.23
esbit tabs (firestarter/backup) 0.09
Total Kitchen 0.63
backpack - ULA Circuit 2.36
knife 0.04
headlamp 0.19
bic lighter 0.03
first aid 0.16
50ft cord 0.08
toilet paper 0.14
camp sandals 0.44
water treatment 0.15
misc (novel, map, etc) 0.25
Total Other 3.83
Total before food/water 13.38
Adding things like a camera, sunglasses, clothing worn, etc will add weight too.
For boots, check Vasque Breeze. I only did some day hiking in these, but bought them for ankle support and ventilation. I were them every day 8-10 hours for the last two years riding my notorcycle. Even at 70 mph in 35 degrees with some wool blend sock for hours I was warm. In the hot weather in Florida they ventilate well. The Vibram soles still look new. About $120 on line and had no breakin problem.
I usually pack sturdy length of cord. I happen to use about 30-40’ of 550 parachute cord. Amazing what you can do if you need it. I tie a piece of wood to it and toss it over dead braches for firewood. Not nearly as wet as stuff on the ground.
Just a suggestion.
later, Tom.