In a thread or two, I’ve recommended Spin to people looking for science fiction. I think I’ve noted each time that I don’t tend much toward science fiction, generally speaking, so my recommendation should be taken with a grain of salt.
How big a grain? If I recommend an sf book to you and admit I don’t read much sf, do you think “She probably has no idea what she’s talking about, since she’s not a fan” or “Hey, this book might be really good since she’s not a fan”?
Obviously, this question is open to all genres, media, or styles.
I’d say that it makes your opinion more valuable for someone who doesn’t read much science fiction. I’ve been a fan since I was a child; I could easily miss noticing aspects of a book that would be baffling to someone who hasn’t steeped in the genre for 30+ years.
What I want to know really, is what kind of stuff are you a fan of? I mean, Science Fiction is a pretty broad genre, and there are authors I like, authors I can’t stand and a whole bunch of authors I’ve never tried–for fear of not liking them (well, and frankly, 95% or more of the books I read are by authors with feminine names–male authors or female authors with male pen names have an uphill battle getting me to pick them up).
In lieu of broader information about your usual taste in literature, I’d at least like some clue as to what made this book appeal to you when most Science Fiction does not–and frankly “Because this one is Really Good” is not helpful. Because this one has interesting characters, or a not too offputtingly weird and futuristic society, or because you were intrigued by the title . . . are all more helpful.
I’m trying To Say Nothing of the Dog right now, which I think has been recommended by non-fans, and I don’t know if I like it or not–it’s not my usual taste, but my usual taste sometimes gets eye-rollingly repetitive, so something new is good (sometimes).
Just using one example of my own preferences, I’m less likely to a non-fan and I would be on the same page. See, as a horror afficianado, must people that don’t watch or read it very much seem to be frightened way more easily than I’d like. So often they’ll recommend something to me (like the most recently bad Mirrors or before that, Cloverfield) and think it’s extremely scary. I usually understand this going in though, so I take it with a grain of salt and politely thank them for their help since I’ll probably check it out regardless.
Now if it’s someone who loves the same type of stuff, I’ll figure we’re somewhere cresting similar waves and actually look forward to / seek out whatever it is they suggest.
What Eureka said – it makes no difference if you’re familiar with the genre or not. What matters is why you liked it.
I think your opinion might have more weight with the reader who also doesn’t read much SF. There was something about the book that appealed to you – you didn’t read it just because you’re a fan of SF.
In my experience fans of SF and horror tend to latch onto concepts rather that the overall quality of a book. The big ideas distract them from the often terminal problems with character and writing. They’re genres that thrive on the high concept and the vast majority of fans are way too forgiving of faults as long as they’re intrigued by that concept.
Look at the top twenty-five best sellers in science fiction and fantasy at Amazon; the vast majority of those I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole and they are almost all reviewed very highly by the Amazon customers.
I would take the recommendation of a non-fan who was a broad reader seriously. The rules of quality fiction don’t change with genre and someone who isn’t a fan of SF as a rule is less likely to be blind to that.
I would rather hear a non-fan’s comment on something, than the comments from someone who is just obsessed with a particular genre/subject/author/actor/director/etc. and luuuuuurves whatever the object of their obsession has spewed out.
There are several Dopers that if I see them praising a film/movie/what have you, I automatically lose any interest in the thing they’re talking about, since I know that they cannot be even remotely objective on the matter.
I would rather the opinions of a non-fan, it means I may enjoy it just as literature like you. I used to read SF in high school and then at some point it started to seem silly compared to serious fiction or even other genres of fiction. A lot of the classic stuff that got me into SF is great literature, things from the 60s and before like Orwell, Heinlein, Huxley, Bradbury, Vonnegut, Dick but few things since appeal on the same level. Walter Tevis’s Mockingbird and Jonathan Carrol’s fantasy stuff is all I can think of
As another horror head, and a fairly jaded one at that, I tend to agree with you here – as far as your take on it goes, at least. In fact I’ll take it a lot further.
Never, ever take anything a mainstream movie critic/reviewer says about a horror movie seriously. I don’t know how true this is of other flavors of fictional entertainment, but wrt horror, the people who don’t dig it for itself, as it were, generally have no idea what makes a horror movie work or not work, or what separates a good one from a lousy one.
If a lot of movie reviewers for mass circulation newspapers or shows like Siskel/Ebert say a horror movie is good, it will inevitably be lame. These guys tend to scare way too easy, for starters, and to get morally huffy things like about the amount of violence involved; so their accolades go to the mildest shocks and tamest action.
Or they’ll rave about a movie calling it “subtle” or “intelligent!” as opposed to the usual mindless juvenile scare fare , when the film in question is really an incoherent mess with artsy pretensions.
And if they praise a horror movie for being “unusual” or “different”, stay the fuck out of that theatre! The reason they like it is it’s so different from a regular horror movie that it ain’t a horror movie at all! It’s exactly the same as with poetry – when you hear people say “I usually hate most poetry, but this stuff is great!”, how do you, yourself, react to the book in question? When, that is, you’re someone who reads, and loves, poetry, and understands just how good the good stuff really is? You *run *from that book, ***screaming! ***Don’t you?! Because if those people are saying *that *about it…well, then you know it sucks rotten eggs.
However, the reverse doesn’t follow automatically. If a new horror movie comes out and all those Shallit/Selvin/and their ilk guys say it stinks on ice, is putrid and disgusting, or get all indignant about it, it can mean one of two different things:
It’s actually a kick ass horror movie but regular movie critics don’t know jack about what makes them scary or entertaining so they didn’t notice the stuff that works and appeals to those of us who are wired right for it --and they’re talking out their butts.
The flick really is a piece of shit, but since these clowns usually don’t know the difference between a good horror movie and a bad one, their opinions on the matter are still gonna be ignorant and wrongheaded.
Now if you talk to someone who actually likes and understands horror movies, s/he can actually tell you if the damned picture works or not, and give you some kind of knowledgeable reason why it does or doesn’t.
I agree. Nothing else could explain the popularity of a horror novel from a few years back which featured talking zombie animals. This also explains the popularity of the Twilight series – it’s gotta be the concept because the writing is abysmal.
My favorite concept is the apocalypse. I won’t read the Left Behind books but I’ll read anything else that even hints at worldwide destruction and chaos. Chances are I’ll love it, even if it’s crap.
DLuxN8R-13, you’re exactly right on with your further critique. Do you have anyone you go to for horror related movie reviews that’s not a major player? And perhaps we should swap lists to mine for suggestions!