I’d like to see flex727 and KP fight this out – maybe not a single arithmetic equation, but why “graduate level”?
Well, reading this thread snapped me back to what I remembered as a graduate level physics class in Mechanics. Turns out it was an upper-level undergraduate class (hey it was over 20 years ago :eek: ). This exact problem was a homework assignment for that class. I also mis-remembered the math required - calculus, not diff eq.
[Emily Latella]
Nevermind!
[/Emily Latella]
I know where flex727 is coming from. Many factors can be considered, but… You only need higher math to calculate emergency stops!
A safe duration for a yellow light can be obtained by dividing the speed limit by a reasonable deceleration [e.g. 3 m/sec^2). If a light requires a 1-gee deceleration that turns loose objects or passengers (I’ve always enjoyed loose passengers of the feminine persuasion, myself) into projectiles I believe that a judge will see that it is unsafe. In fact, you probably don’t need math at all, just the state/federal mandated braking/signal tables. Remember: it’s the driver’s responsibility to reduce to an [unspecified] “safe speed” for their load and road conditions
[US Federal Guidelines]
[Ontario’s guidelines, based on a deceleration of 3 m/sec^2]
Personally, I wouldn’t even risk introducing a calculus derivation in traffic court – or criminal court, for that matter. If forced to present higher math, I’d get an expert to testify that they had done the equations, instead)
How much will a calculus solution differ from a basic approximation at velocities under 45 mph, given that a court will probably only heed 1 (or maybe 0.5) second units on math of your devising?
[Few intersections even have a speed limit that high. Maybe they are more common (or less well marked) eslewhere in the nation, but I’ve always seen warning signs and/or speed limit drops hundreds of yards ahead of any red light on higher speed highways.]
Granted, there are potential issues. However, as a realistic matter, if the yellow light is too short for a safe stop, it’s too short for a safe stop for everyone and most people will be forced to run the light, not just the fraction who are complaining now. If it is too short for you, specifically (say you’re driving a U-Haul full of bricks) then it is your job to go slow because, well, you’re driving a U-Haul full of bricks. Surely you don’t expect them to change the speed limits and traffic lights to make everyone drive like they’re hauling bricks?
a better solution would be for local governments to curtail spending. Government should spend its citizens’ money only on essential government functions. Then it would not have to charge $271 for a speeding ticket.
Also, I am aware of no law making it illegal to spray a clear liquid on your license plate, or to protect your license plate with a clear casing. I have seen no cite to such a law on this thread, either. Even if such a law exists in Maryland, its dubious it exists in many other states. Why would such a law exist except to protect government revenues from red light cameras, which are a recent invention?
::: Checks scorecard:::
Let’s see the score is now
Q.E.D. 2
LemonThrower 0
I stand correct but remain doubtful that this is illegal “in most states” as stated by KP, simply because this is a recent phenomenon.
No need to get personal, either.
No cites, but I would imagine that there may be some laws in response to ‘camera-evading’ treatments or covers of license plates; however, I would think that most/some states would already have laws to ensure the visibility and readability of license plates - to counteract the mud treatment mentioned earlier. The need for law enforcement, and everyday citizens, to see a plate number clearly was not created by red-light cameras. It is in the public interest for a witness to be able to say a “blue Nova, tag #123-ABC ran over the group of nuns escorting handicapped children, then sped away”
I think the there should be a law that the goverment should have to donate all the traffic fines it collects to charity. That would end the dangers to safety that these trick lights are.