I’m sure you can see where clarification was needed since puzzlement about your OP was expressed throughout this thread. As it is, though, discussion about the possible duality of religious figures/philosophy belongs in Great Debates–even if a real-world event such as a plane crash was what lit the particular spark to this keg.
Off it goes.
Is that name your own invention?
You’re right that a literal being that would do that is an asshole, but the Dark Christ I’m talking about is metaphorical.
I disagree. Seeing others suffer is one important way that we learn compassion, since compassion is pretty much defined as a response to that suffering. Understanding the nature of a plane crash is one path to compassion. I, personally, was not “converted” by learning about 123, but reading about it hit home and reinforced in me the need for compassion and love in the world.
In my case it wasn’t momentary, but something that stayed with me for days.
Wow, glad things worked out for you.
But didn’t you learn to love more as well? That is the influence of the metaphorical Dark Christ.
“Christ” means annointed. You cannot create a “Christ”. You can call your little boogeyman whatever you want, but it is not a Christ.
You know one reason I plopped down my hard earned money on the Straight Dope because the “you don’t get what I am saying because your mind is not opened” element is pretty much squelched here.
Explain what you mean. Don’t post vague, esoteric things that we need to interpret, then say we don’t understand just how deep the concept is when we disagree or ask you to back up your info.
Yeah. I’m not trying to make a big deal about the name; it’s just my metaphor, you see.
…posting in a language most do not read or understand?
Well, since I think all religion is metaphorical, it doesn’t really make much difference.
My mother taught me compassion when I was a child. Yes, it came from seeing “suffering” such as, “You took that cookie from Cindy and now she’s crying. How would you like it if that happened to you?” In that way, I agree with what you’re saying.
But now I’m a grown-up. I don’t need to see horrible suffering to “remind” me to be compassionate. I strive to practice kindness and compassion every day.
There is no “nature” to it. The “nature” is a combination mechanical failure and gravity. I see nothing mystical about that. There was nothing mystical about me changing my reservation-- I simply changed my plans for convenience.
The gist of this is that shit happens. It happens every day, all over the world. Whether it’s a little kid starving to death in a war-torn nation or an epic disaster, people suffer every moment. There’s no mystical, philosophical lesson to be gleaned from it. It just is, and always shall be, unto the ends of the earth.
Pardon me if this statement fills me with images of food banks filled over the Thanksgiving holiday but vacant in January.
September 11th profoundly touched many people. I, myself, will never forget the horror of seeing people leap from those buildings to avoid being burned alive. Americans turned to one another with hugs and sharing. But how much compassion do you see on the streets now?
I saw thousands lined up to give blood immediately after the tragedy. Now, my local blood bank is* begging *for donations.
I saw people cheering in the streets as firefighters drove by. Now, my local fire company is having bake sales to try to raise money because a tax levy for their support failed in the last election.
I’m sure if you’d asked many people on September 12th, they would say that the tragedy changed their outlook on life-- that now they were going to love one another more, help one another more, and live lives of compassion and kindness. Today, they kick bums out of the way to get to Starbucks.
Let’s revive this thread a year from now, shall we, and see if you’re still the same. Compassion is not a feeling. It’s a lifestyle.
No, actually I didn’t learn to “love more.” I well understood the importance of loving my fellow man, compassion and kindness-- and, no, it doesn’t come from a religious philosophy.
What it taught me is that my body is a frail thing. At any moment, I could be hit by a car, crushed by a falling meteor or die of a sudden aneurysm, as a young friend of mine did while I was in high school. I didn’t need the “lesson” of my friend’s death or avoiding a plane crash to realize the concepts of kindness, love and compassion. In my opinion, they’re naturally part of a good person-- which I strive to be.
My point is, that outside of Hollywood, you don’t become a good person by epiphany. People who suddenly love-their-neighbors after tragedy forget all about it once the shock has worn off and they’re distracted by day-to-day living again.
Perhaps not, but you can become a changed person by epiphany. History offers many examples, not all of which can be counted as improvements.
The best kind of epiphany, IMO, is the kind Gautama/Buddha went through when he escaped his palace and was confronted with human suffering – he did not suddenly “see the light,” he only became generally aware that there just might be something to seek, and set out on the first step of a long and difficult path of discovery.
Mohammed, OTOH . . . well, we needn’t dwell on that.
Maybe the portals of my mind are malfunctioning, but this is one of the most confusing threads I’ve ever seen. Sounds like a terrible tragedy, but… wha?
I agree with Lissa. I’m not sure how watching people die horribly is supposed to encourage me to be more compassionate. I do the best that I can as is. Everybody dies, and unfortunately some people die the way these people did. Death strikes me as a poor motivation for doing these things, especially when it’s inspired by something like this plane crash. How will you ever be satisfied with your efforts?
I think we should be compassionate and kind to one another because it helps the people we’re being good to, which makes them feel better and makes us feel better.
Most people are not kept in a golden palace all their lives, surrounded only by beautiful, young and healthy people. Anyone in the modern world who is unaware of suffering needs either their eyes or head examined.
Actually, that (metaphorically) pretty well describes the situation of people in modern industrialized nations, compared with most of the world. We have suffering, of course, but not like they have it in Sudan.
You don’t really need to understand Japanese to get the gist on this one.
Having said that, it is a known fact that the most oft uttered word on those black box recordings is “Shit!”
Repeat that a dozen or so times and you’ll get the basic idea.
To paraphrase Tennessee Tuxedo to the eminent Phineas J. Whoopee, “Aeschines, you’re the greatest!“
Now, come along Chumley. We have an adventure to get on with.
Who says that Jesus fills one’s heart with sunshine, lollipops and rainbows? Somehow, I dont’ think that 's in the New Testament.
How does the suffering of other’s lead to YOUR redemption? IMS, only one person has claimed redemption for others through his death–Jesus.
I agree that personal suffering can lead to personal redemption or growth or change-but watching my brother suffer, while it stirs compassion in me, does not lead to MY redemption. Hopefully, it will lead to some practical help on my part!
Just MO, but the term the “dark Christ” seems intended to get a rise from people. If you are alluding to the complexities of Christ’s teachings, then say so, please. Christ preached to love one another–simple, but not easy. It leads to all sorts of mess in life and alot of it people would rather do without–perhaps that is the lollipops reference. Nonetheless, the call is to love one another–Christ is not to blame if we humans cannot meet the standard.
So you are happy these people died a horrid death to teach you a esson in empathy?
Crazy stuff man…
That is a good point: In what way is the Dark Christ annointed? Thank you for helping me to extend the metaphor.
Maybe/maybe not. Sometimes people need to be told: Open the portals of your mind.
I have explained what I mean, and I’ve posted links for your further edification. At this point you are battling your own demon of invalidation within, not me. Face your demons; let your own Christ(s) redeem you.
Ah, but it is precisely because religion is metaphorical that it makes a difference.
Right.
I don’t understand the hostility in your tone. I seem to have really struck a nerve.
Fine, you’re better than I am; many are. You don’t require the ministrations of the Dark Christ to set you straight now and then. Good for you, but where is your compassion for those who do need Him?
Perhaps not “mystical,” but it is a meaningfully extreme facet of That Which Is. When you want to know what “red,” is you look at a fire engine, not a pink birthday cake. And when you want to know what Hell is, you look at Fight 123, not a hangnail.
It sounds as though you understand the philisophical lesson that suffering teaches. Again, I don’t know about “mystical”; I don’t deal in “mystical” myself. Try to find any support for “mysticisim” in any of my posts; it ain’t in there.
Right you are: The medicine wears off. But where is your compassion for those who have not learned well enough to be compassionate?
I can imagine. But let’s not be angry at people for having “gotten it” once but not forever and aye. Let’s use the lessons of the Dark Christ to make sure that we continue in the same vein while helping others to do so as well.
I disagree. I think 9/11 permanently raised the spiritual consciousness of many people. It’s too bad that Bush took those energies and applied them to evil ends; but such is the way of evil leaders.
Why the anger? We seem to be on the same side of this thing. I agree that it’s a lifestyle that takes a lot of work every day. The teachings of the Dark Christ are one way to stay on track.
If you are indeed doing your best, then the Dark Christ cannot help you improve your ethics, but He may be able to deepen your understanding of Life.
I won’t be.
Yes, that is definitely true. But there is a deeper level to compassion that goes beyond “It’s nice.”
Thank you, my good doctor. I don’t agree that “Shit” sums up the recordings (and they aren’t saying that in Japanese, or its equivalent). You have to hear all the warning bells going off, etc., to understand the true nature of that Hell.
While a lot of you seem to enjoy crapping on Aeschines spiritual revelation, I would like to take my hand at explaining the “Dark Christ” concept a little bit.
We all have horrors in our past that we experienced or were imprinted upon us by the society in which we live deep in our more empathic childhood. The Dark Christ is the one that comes and helps you dredge up these parts of you that you need to face, because they are irrevocably part of you, and to leave them denied would to be to continue to deny yourself. Christ descended into hell to redeem humanity’s sins. I have also heard this referred to as “lost will”. When something traumatic occurs we stuff it away in some dark compartment where we hope we will never have to see it again. If we do this enough times, whole parts of ourselves become what we call “baggage”, and as these emotions are stuffed into “Baggage” they become a drain on our energy, rather than adding to the amount of energy that we have to use. So the Dark Christ goes in and helps to elevate, or raise the vibration of these frozen parts of our psyche. The Dark Christ is the Christ that lives in Hell helping to revive the lost souls by bringing back the missing pieces of ourselves into our consciousness.
It is one of the most simple and primitive instincts to label anything that revives the unpleasant for us as being “evil” or somehow undesirable, but in the end it is beneficial. This doesn’t mean the Dark Christ CAUSED this plane to crash, merely that Aeschines emotional experience of empathy for these people allowed the Dark Christ to come and help him bring these emotions that had been locked away to the surface. Aeschines learning about this plane crash was the trigger that allowed the Dark Christ to do his work, it wasn’t something that the Dark Christ caused to happen in order to teach Aeschines a lesson.
The Heart knows all. It knows what the brain refuses to face, it continues to pump blood for as long as their is life left in the organs. It continues to care for that which has been forgotten. This is why people with lots of baggage are referred to as “Having a heavy heart”, because the heart is pumping blood to parts of the soul that are receiving nourishment, but are locked in chains and add weight to the being, without helping to lift the weight of the body.
Erek