Regarding: Homer, a racist or not ?

The BBQ Pit
21

I didn’t post that example as a spring board for people to share their racist thoughts and laugh about them. I posted it as an example of something thoughtful people sometimes think, catch themselves and realize, thats a silly attitude.

I notice the only thing that stuck with you from my post, Homer, was my apology. That was an afterthought. Not the most important message.

I am glad Spiritus Mundi reiterated my point. In fact, he made it much more concisely and clearly than I did. I just hope you take the time to read it.

Even telling the story about Andre Rison, you don’t seem to be cognizant of the assumptions you made. Its just a funny story you can repeat and everyone will laugh, but if it wasn’t someone famous, you would have been right to assume that he making the “sign”.

pat

22

I’m glad this thread developed in a civilized manner. That’s the way I meant it to develop, and I basically only posted it here because of the possibility that people might wanna use some profanity :slight_smile:

I can certainly live with the statement “Homer may not be racist, but his remarks certainly were”. Homer, in the past and in your defence now, you have always come across as a very intelligent and eloquent guy. Quite possibly the last person I would have expected words of that magnitude from. Therefore, it strikes me that - as many people have already pointed out - you do not even IN HINDSIGHT admit the words you chose to voice your (understandable) anger were on dangerous ground to say the least. Instead, you’re trying to EXPLAIN those very words by basically restricting your racism and generalizations to one appartment complex, whereas we had all so wrongly assumed they concerned every Mexican on the planet. A poor defence to say the least.
Your credibility would have been mostly restored had you admitted that the terminology you used was wrong and racist, instead of going off and defending it. But, I guess it’s not oo late for that now.

In any case, I do thank you for taking the time to elaborate so extensively. And I’m looking forward to your further responses.

Coldfire

“You know how complex women are”

  • Neil Peart, Rush (1993)
23

There’s nothing wrong with making the assumptions. There is something wrong with hating an entire group of people because of them. I would safely wager that many of them don’t like living that way at all, in fact, but have few available options. Hating someone because of the model year of their car and how many kids they have? Not cool.

This is not true. When someone is being racist, they are treating someone differently (and usually as an inferior) based solely on their skin color or national origin, regardless of what information they have.

And you would hate someone because they are poor, and kill someone because they stole your CD player? I would surmise here that Jesus would kick you right in the ass for that.

“Argue with what I said, not what you think or hope I said.” - Me

24

I stand by my original assertion that Homer posted his OP in a fit of rage- I have said shamefull things in a rage that I would never, ever repeat. I hated my old boss so much that I frequently wished death to him- out loud. I am not proud, but I’ve done it. Homer had most of his possessions stolen (same as if someone robbed your house).
I invite everyone who uses the “trailer trash” phrase in their posts to look in the mirror at someone who is “racist” against a part of white society. People laugh at the idea of “trailer trash” rednecks, drinking beer out in front of their trailer, collecting welfare checks, etc, etc. People talk about this all the time on here, but no one seems to be offended. Well it is the same thing. Just a little food for though.

A friend is someone who likes you even though you’re as ugly as a hat full of assholes.
Zettecity

25

Guess what, Zette? I would have also thought the same thing about his evil statements.

The crux of the matter, however, is his weak excuses after he was called on it.

Now, if I write something I don’t really mean in the heat of the moment, and a bunch of people question it, I would re-read it and make a clarification. Not excuses.

I promissed myself I wouldn’t post here, because I don’t like the lynch mob mentality that can rise up in a thread like this, but I had to comment on that.

Yer pal,
Satan

26

Nope, sorry. Homer put quite a bit of thought into what he said, and I don’t buy the excuse that he was in a fit of rage. He’s been given every oppertunity to atone himself and he hasn’t. His public racism has earned him being forever banned from this board.

Therealbubba

27

And I still want to know what makes him so sure it was the people living in that apartment complex who boosted his stuff.

Dopeler effect:
The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.

28

Banned from the board, my ass.

“Let’s have only people who think like me on the board.” Horseshit. And hiding behind the “no jerks” rule would be chickenshit.

If someone evidences racism, jump 'em. Let them know that their posts will be closely scrutinized, and, if found lacking in fact or logic, soundly critiqued.

Homer’s post obviously displayed his anger. He probably didn’t recognize the underlying racist theme. I’ll bet he recognizes it now, though.

29

Good point, Rysdad. I think, as Cecil’s legion, we are supposed to be stamping out ignorance.

Dopeler effect:
The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.

30

…yeah…don’t ban him…

31

UncleBeer said: “And I still want to know what makes him so sure it was the people living in that apartment complex who boosted his stuff.”

We had a rash of car break-ins in my town about a year ago. Maybe a total of 20 in a two-week period along several streets (nice, upper middle-class suburb). Everybody thought it was this group of wannabe gangbangers (mixed races) who lived in an old, crappy apartment complex nearby. These kids were always seen in a group, wearing the baggy clothes, loitering around, looking “suspicious”. Well, the cops caught the theives in the act one night. Turns out they weren’t that group of gangbangers at all, but were four upper-class white kids who were out breaking into cars for the fun of it.

32

I don’t get this, Pat. Given the paragraph in question, along with the lack of understanding of the criticisms following it, I think it’s quite clear that he is a racist. Can you elaborate on how you’re coming to the conclusion that you state in the first two sentences above?

I mean, just because you don’t realize there’s a booger hanging out of one nostril doesn’t mean you don’t have to blow your nose.

Rich

33

I’ve never really thought of it before, but now that you mention it, I definetly think Homer is a racist. I mean, did you see the episode where he basically does nothing but mock Apu’s religion? And I never thought he treated Carl with the same amount of respect as Lenny. And have you ever seen the way he looks at Dr. Hibbert? Pure racism. As for hispanics, I’ve never seen him speak to the Bee Guy, although they have appeared at many of the same social functions. Homer always seems to be avoiding him. Kind of makes you think, huh?

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.

34

Homer: One question I have is; did you ask people in the apartment complex where you were robbed if they knew who did it? At the time, you would probably beeen too agitated to do this in a sane manner, understandably, but you could do it now in a non-confrontational manner. I imagine your anger has subsided by now. I’ve been ripped off several times, one instance detailed in a reply to your original thread. And I’ve found that when I tell my story to people in the area, most folks are upset that happened. Don’t go in there guns ablazin’, but tell of how much that hurt you. Perhaps there is an older person or maintenace person, who knows what’s going on in the community, that you can approach with your concerns. Not in a manner that you’re gonna call down the forces of El Migra, but who will listen to your side. People come to this country to make a better life for themselves, and don’t want to see their community debased and their children doing things that will end them up in jail. By doing this, I think you’ll learn something valuable about the people in that apartment building, and also alert the concerned elders about a problem there.

Consider this : a group of Mexican American youth, standing around their neighborhood, and another “rich American” comes up with all his fancy stereo equipment in his car. (Did you ever say anything disparaging about the neighborhood?) Maybe their dads & moms work their ass off for nothing. Maybe other people make shitty racist remarks to their family every day. Maybe they’re so discouraged and pissed off that by the time you rolled around it was time to just take like people had taken from them. I in no way condone stealing but reverse the state of pissed off anger… in the extreme states, we all do senseless things. Those of you who blessedly don’t fall into that mental trap, great, you’re beyond the discussion, but Homer, you fell right into it . You don’t feel that you’re racist, and your rational arguments indicate that you are aware of racist issues in the culture… BUT… who were the first people you picked on when pissed off??? That’s the problem with deeply ingrained racism, it sticks in at a deep level, and when irritated, escalates to a lethal level. What if you were an idiot with a gun? Would you be so angry that you would start shooting at the nearest “Mexican”? In light of all the very real hate shootings we are seeing now, perhaps an understanding of escalated anger, such as yours, is something we all gotta grip on.

35

Personally, I don’t see any point in calling Homer “a racist” unless you can be damn sure that he lives his life within the constraints suggested by that designation. I was as sickened as anyone else here by what he wrote in his OP, but he also claims to hang out with frat boys of various colors and creeds. So, I don’t find it helpful to write him off as a racist, as if that were his daily vocation, as if there were no other sides to him that might challenge that simplistic characterization.

36

Rich asked:

Rich,
I don’t know Homer. I just know that paragraph. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, and hope he owned up to these statements as mistakes and clear everything up. I do think he has made various ignorant statements. I just don’t want to go all the way to calling him names. It doesn’t accomplish much. I just want to classify the statements he makes, and if he continues to make the same type of statements, then I will feel justified in classifying him.

pat

37

Well, racist or not he could use a handy device called paragraph breaks. It was very hard to read his OP when it was in, mostly, one big long line. Again, folks, please, break up your thoughts. Even if you aren’t sure where those breaks should be just do it every five or six lines if nothing else. Thanks. As to the post. And for those who have been there, done that, please forgive me but this raised a whole SHIT LOAD OF PERSONAL ISSUES.

Homer– They live somewhere in the apartment complex. I don’t know who. But they have to…It’s someone who’s listened to me pull up…

Okay, that’s enough for me right there. Someone who’s listened to you PULL UP? So, let me get a grip on this part right here… your stereo is so FUCKING LOUD and OBNOXIOUS that they can HEAR you PULL UP? Well, fuck me all over town but I’d rip out your stereo too! Just to shut you the hell up! Right there you’ve given someone a damn good reason to attack your car! If you are pulling up into ANYONE’S apartment complex with the stereo blaring then shit, it’s no wonder some one shut you down! That’s just FUCKING RUDE!

Homer – I am not a racist. But I will hate every single illegal immigrant, lawn care working, rusted out econoline driving, dirty, sweaty, greasy, mexican bastard that I see pulling up into this $200 a month apartment complex to walk in to his filthy wife preparing food for his twelve unwashed children.

DEAR GOD! What planet are you on? You don’t think that’s racist? Even if you took it back later in that thread that is a statement that no backtracking can cover up! My cousin works in lawn care (he’s like me, a mutt of Scottish, French-Canadian, Irish, Blackfoot Indian, Black…) And my dad has a rusted out econoline van. I myself am often dirty, sweaty, greasy and yes, I have Hispanic blood in me! How dare you make such assumptions! His “filthy” wife, his “unwashed” children! God! I’m really appalled! No, I’m not going to jump into that now dying thread. I’ll keep my comments here.

I’ll bet your head would just EXPLODE if you found out it was “some white guy”. Regardless, I’m hoping your head does explode! No matter how much you try to take these statements back later on they just SCREAM the fact that you think some dirty Mexican ripped you off. Dominate race in the complex or not. That was a racist thing to say. I was deeply offended. I myself live in a chancy neighborhood. It’s not chancy because of the whites, the blacks, the Mexicans. It’s chancy because some folks here are god damn sociopaths that don’t give a rat’s ass about anyone. Some one fucks with their car and they automatically ASSUME it’s some one who hates their race or from a race they hate.

Rather than just dealing with the fact that hey, they got ripped off, they turn it into a race issue. Maybe it is. Sure, yeah, I’m a realist, I’ve had neighbors hate me because they “perceive” me as white. But I’ve never turned around after my garage was broken into and immediately ASSUMED that (insert racial slur here) did it. Someone did it. That’s all I know. Most likely, it wasn’t even someone in the neighborhood.

I think you are a racist jerk. Your trying desperately to cover your ass later didn’t help.

38

“There is no more evil thing in this world than race prejudice…It justifies and holds together more baseness, cruelty, and abomination than any other sort of error in the world.” - H.G. Wells

“Racism is man’s gravest threat to man - the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason.” -Abraham Joshua Heschel

“Racism is the snobbery of the poor.” - Raymond Aron

and finally…

“Prejudice not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument.” - Samuel Johnson

39

Aaah! A bunch of quotations. I see someone has been boning up on my writings…

“If at all possible well-accepted slogans should be used. Inserting phrases like “the proof is in the pudding” and “we have no right to play God with” hint that the logic is so obvious that it need not be mentioned. Since this logic is not mentioned, it can not be contradicted.”

Konrad - Enforcing Structure: A Guide for the Modern English Teacher

http://pages.infinit.net/konrad/english.htm

40

Seriously, now.
I tend to agree with Byzantine here, although not as loudly. Your initial reaction is always the closest to your true feelings, for the simple fact that you haven’t thought about the facts yet. Your initial reaction to any situation has to do only with, well, your prejudices, meaning your pre-existing ideas. What you thought when you found your stereo stolen, and what you posted to this list first, reflects your pre-existing ideas about Mexicans. Perhaps in everyday life, you can think things through enough so that these prejudices don’t come out. I’m not saying that you are doing this consciously.
The fact that you posted what you posted immediately after you were ripped off reflects that you do have racist feelings toward Mexicans. I can’t tell you why this is. Maybe a Mexican kid pushed you down on the playground when you were 6. I don’t know.
In response to mikan’s post, nobody’s saying that Homer lives his life under the “restraints” of racism because he harbors these feelings. As I said before, in everyday functioning these feelings are probably buried just below the surface. When he meets a Mexican person, perhaps he thinks those things for a split-second, but he has been conditioned by society to come back to reality right away.

Ah, don’t assume that because a person is prejudiced against one group of people, he or she is a flat out “racist.” For instance, a person can have prejudices concerning African Americans, but have perfectly normal and unbiased feelings about Jews or Mexicans.
The point is, having prejudiced feelings about one group does not qualify someone as a “racist.” The Klan are racist. Homer has racist views on Mexicans. I’m not saying that it’s okay to have these feelings; I definetly think you should try to get over them. But I’m not ready to label you as a “racist” just yet. If your house gets robbed next week and you blame black people, then we’ll talk.

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.