The general opinion seems to be clear. Is there anyone who thinks Homer is not a racist ? Also: Homer, could you defend your actions a little more succesfully than you did so far in said thread ?
I’m willing to keep my mind open just a bit for now, although the facts speak against him.
Opinions ?
And: was the slap on the wrist Ed Zotti gave really enough ? I’m not saying he should be banned, but this thread clearly falls into the category “Violations of the ‘Don’t be a jerk’ rule” to me…
Well, I opened the thread when it was almost over, and most of the people said pretty much what was on my mind, so I didn’t have anything to add.
But since you’re asking, CF, I’ll say this:
Practically everyone I know has had things stolen from them, including me. But I never saw a reaction even remotely resembling Homer’s. Despair, anger, a sense of violation, yes, but this was way over the top.
His remarks were clearly racist. If he really feels that way, I can only regard him with a mixture of pity and contempt.
IMHO, the remarks were clearly racist, but of the virulent, sub-conscious variety where you shake your head and wonder who taught them that stuff.
On the other hand, Homer seems to me very sociopathic and self-centered, which I would argue is a behavior for which he’d have to take responsibility:
What about the folk from just over the border who wonder “just who it is that did this to me” when their water is polluted, baby gets carcinogens, parents starve, etc… courtesy of the CD player factory (or whatever) pumping PCB’s in the water supply, etc… All to ensure our CD players can be purchased by anyone with a living wage north of the border ? Do they hate us equally until they figure out who’s responsible ? No, they make their way up here, do whatever work they can (typically nothing “Americans” would do), send their kids to school, etc… that is, change their situation; they don’t switch to “kill the gabacho” mode, although their public health and day-to-day livelihood is much more compelling than the loss of a toy.
O le mea a tamaali’i fa’asala, a o le mea a tufanua fa’alumaina.
He has stated that his neighborhood is quite low-rent; therefore, it is highly likely to be quite low-income as well. Chances are the people he sees on a day-to-day basis are un-wealthy, with varying states of employment etc.
The poorest segment of a population, regardless of color, does not tend to reflect as well as one might hope upon the rest of the population.
So, it follows: if all Homer sees is that particular portion, his day-to-day perspective is tainted by the frustrations of the environment he lives in, while still allowing room to believe in the idealized nobility of all mankind.
These are only economic factors, I will not bother going into the higher crime rates that are presumably present in Homer’s neighborhood etc. because frankly I think it is unnecessary to justify my statement further.
It takes 42 muscles to frown, but only 4 to slap someone upside the head.
Well I’ve been away from SDMB for a while, missed the whole thing, and clicked on this thread thinking this had to do with The Simpsons.
[SPEWING]Homer…If anyone deserves to get their shit jacked, it was you. You’re a fucking idiot.
I wish it was me who ripped you off so after I was done, I could have hidden around the corner just to watch you shit your pants and cry like a baby in front of your friends.
It’s shitheads like you that gun laws were made for. If you think you’re so fucking bad, get your ass out in front of that complex and start calling out some Mexicans. Then tell them what you so bravely told us, you little fucking maggot.[/SPEWING]
Yeah, he’s a racist all right. The worst kind; too chicken shit to admit it.
JESUS CHRIST! Those of you harping on his racism need to stand down. I will agree that the post was racist. So what? When I was jumped by a gang of blacks near Gonzaga in D.C. and beaten, I sure as hell hated ALL blacks for a while. Until I grew up. It’s a natural reaction of self-preservation.
If a dog is beaten by it’s master, it will cower before all humans. It needs understanding, not name-calling. Homer will get past this. I thought his post was well-written and could certainly feel his emotion. I could also relate.
It might have been better posted to this forum, where comments like that need not be taken so seriously - but that’s a pretty anal point of contention.
I just posted a reply to Homer’s thread, covering my reaction. Been under a rock with that one…so many threads, so little…
In the case of this thread,to me, the astute responses made it worthwhile to keep it afloat. The OP was not meant as a particularly racist jibe, seemed more like someone getting carried away by rage. If those in this community can help him see how that was offensive, I think it’s done a world of good.
Thanks, Mjollnir. You’re dead on. Homer said some racist things, that’s fine. But his violent reaction way way over the line. I just hope like hell I never meet him IRL when he’s had a shitty day.
Allright, everyone. Here I am. I decided to check this the Pit to see how well I was being roasted. Perhaps I’ve not done enough to explain myself. A little background, maybe?
I was born in Olathe, KS, in 1981. Lower class folks on the edge of town. Older brother, younger sister. Dad got a promotion, we moved to Omaha, where I gained twin sisters. Lived there for eight years, in a nice neighborhood, but we were admittedly poor for a while after the twins were born. We moved back near our family in 1991, to a very small town south of Kansas City, where three towns make one school. In my school, the cultural diversity can be counted on fingers and toes. Two blacks, probably 10 hispanics, maybe five asians. Never had a problem with any of them, except for a few people who would come in from the city and try to be a gangbanger. That’s just annoying. Friends with some staunchly rascist folks, but, despite my small-town later upbringing, I have never considered myself rascist. Have made rascist jokes for humor, who can honest to God say they haven’t? I do not discriminate by race, I take every single person on a person by person basis. I have, I’ll admit, jumped to conclusions about people and been startlingly wrong. I now work at Best Buy, and again, I admit, I find it hard to deal with many customers who come in, not because of their race, but because they either have an accent too thick to understand (I have a small hearing problem), take too long to conjugate English for me to pay attention (I have a short attention span), or because they are visibly unclean. I’m not talking “I just got off work and I do construction” type unclean, I mean, “Why the hell does he even bother to put on clean clothes when their body is that grimy?” unclean. It is tough to answer questions on the phone to someone who cannot speak clearly due to accent. That’s not being rascist, that’s the damn truth!
I work with a black man named Rafique who is one of the coolest guys I know. I work with someone who is either a hassidic jew, or arabic, who is kind of a dork, but he’s only like, 14, so it’s okay. In my fraternity, we have as many blacks, arabs, asians, and hispanics as we have whites. Now, you’re going to say “He’s just saying ‘I have friends of different races’ so he can make being rascist okay.” Go ahead. If that is so, obviously nothing I can say will convince you that I’m not rascist.
I did not live in the neighborhood where the theft occured, I was visiting a friend at her older sister’s house. The reason that I said it was mexicans, and not some other race, was because the vast majority of the people that live there are mexican. The reason I assume it was a mexican who stole my stuff is because every time I pull in, there is a group of hispanic youths standing on the landings, watching me pull in, with great interest. Not mere “Oh, someone’s here” type interest, either. I was not making a comment on the whole race. I was making a comment on the socioeconomic status of the residents of this complex, based on observed information. When you hear multiple babies screaming from one apartment, is it unfair to assume that they have many children? When everyone you see standing around is in dirty clothes, is it wrong to assume they dress like that most of the time? When they let their dogs shit all over the sidewalk, is it wrong to assume that their lifestyle may be somewhat unclean? When the nicest cars there are rusted barges from the late 70’s and early 80’s, is it wrong to assume they don’t have nice cars?
I try not to judge people. But I do. We all do, from time to time. You guys have judged me. Maybe not on my looks or race, but on my angry words. Every explaination I’ve tried to give, you’ve dissemenated and destroyed. I take people on a person by person basis, and based on what I’ve observed from being at this place from time to time, it was not an inaccurate statement, for the people in this complex. It was meant to apply only to people in this complex. It was not a brash racial judgement or generalization. It was meant for a small group of about 30 families, based on firsthand information. When someone is being rascist, they are doing so on incorrect information, generalizations, and misconceptions. This is not true for anything that was stated, at least, not when taken in context. I have been so misconstrued and pulled out of context that it’s not even funny. The sad thing is, many people here aren’t even sympathetic, even if I DID leave out the last paragraph, or at least edit it better. I’ve been called petty, childish, and immature. None of this is called for. You would also be righteously indignant if the same thing happened to you. Say you wouldn’t. You’d be lying. Melanie, you’d feel the same way. Even the most cynical person cannot just shrug and say “It happens” when someone steals a large chunk of their possessions. It’s not fun, and it’s not funny. It’s also not fair to call the person names, ridicule, or any way cut them down when they are feeling true emotion. That’s not something I do to anyone, and I would wish it wasn’t something done to me. Although, I did chuckle at the stereo for sale thing.
I know most of you who consider me to be rascist are still going to. But consider this. Satan, you hate fundies, as you call them, and apparently most Christians, too. That seems to go for most of you. I am a very religious Christian. Methodist, actually. I’ve never judged any of you for being atheistic, or non-conformist Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, whatever religion or non-religion you may be. Yet, you had previously judged my faith and beliefs. Matt_mcl, SqrlCub, your lifestyle is obviously not in my book of ‘correct’ things. But that’s MY book. I wouldn’t do it, and I wouldn’t exactly condone anyone I knew doing it. But I can’t stop you, and I surely don’t discriminate, judge you or hate you for it. You’re going to do what you want to do, and whether I agree with it or not is arbitrary. I don’t know who on this board has had abortions, if anyone. I also vehemently defend the right to life. But I’m not going to push it on you, I will just choose not to participate in any sort of debate thereof, or preach to you. You don’t care what I have to say on the matter, and it’s not my place to tell you. I have not judged a single darn one of you, no matter what you’ve said or done. Yet I slip in my political correctness while in a blind rage, and suddenly I’ve been labeled, canned, and shelved for it. Suddenly, no one believes or agrees with anything I have to say, simply because I was mad. On top of that, everything I had to say about the matter has been misinterpreted. I am not apologizing for what I said, because what I said was not meant in the tone it was taken. If I had actually been refering to the mexican as a people, or a culture, or a race, or as a stereotype, generalization, or assumption, I would accept a rascist label. But what I said was observed statements, about a small community of people, of whom I’ve had contact with for many months. These are not things that I made up, or stereotyped. These were statements about people I know. I can’t say that “All black people smell” because that’s obviously not true, and rascist to boot. But I can say “I know a family of black people who smell”, and that IS true, and not rascist, because I know the family, and I have experienced first hand the fact that they smell.
Lastly, please consider this:
Are you offended?
–Tim
If you’re still going to think I’m rascist after this, oh fucking well. I give up.
Homer, I’m going to go to bat for you here. I’d imagine you’re probably about 18 years old. That’s around the time that I learned the hard way that the world was a shitty place, although it wasn’t my stuff that was taken, it was someone I loved. But that’s beside the point. The reason I’m backing you up is because I’m going to be the person who stands up and admits that I’ve had thoughts like those you expressed before. Usually, they come out of left field, and shock me when I think them. Yet, even though I’ve had some terribly racist (or, a better way to put it, culturally prejudiced) thoughts come out of my head for reasons even less important than the ones you had, I know I would never act on those impulsive feelings. I would never discriminate; I would never truly hate. Hell, I can’t even hold a grudge. I can sense that you’re the same way. Apparently, the evil is in the fact that you let those thoughts see the light of day.
Homer,
I don’t think you are racist. I never thought you were racist.
I thought the statement you made was racist.
Especially the fact that it was followed by such violent and hateful images against the people, it made it even worse.
I think all of us have those thoughts. We see a young Black guy driving a Mercedes. We think drug dealer. (As a poor example) But, its catching that thought and realizing its a wrong that makes the difference.
Thats the reason I posted the first time to that thread. I thought you posted in anger, and I understood that, but I figured if it was pointed out to you that the ideas and terms you used were offensive maybe you would realize what you were doing. The thoughts weren’t what I had a problem with. Posting it wasn’t even the problem I had. It was the fact that you could read it after everyone told you what they thought, and still argue til you were blue in the face how there was nothing wrong with it, and it just seemed racist, because we read it out of context.
I never disagreed with everything you said because of that one paragraph. Except for that one post I made in anger, I sympathized for you and understood how mad you must have been.
Yes, I agree “White Trash” is the last group of people that its ok to make fun of. But, that doesn’t change what you did. So bringing that up, doesn’t add anything to your argument.
I am sorry I got so flamey in that thread.
Culturally Prejudiced is a better term. But, its harder to type. So, throughout this mesage replace racist with Culturally prejudiced. except this paragraph.
Somewhat funny story about cultural prejudice. One time, I worked in Price Chopper. One day I was going to work, when I made a left hand turn, nearly smashing into a huge, dark, black man in a beautiful silver Mercedes. Scared the shit out of me. He flashed the ‘westside’ sign (or at least, I thought it was). I thought I was going to die. So I pulled into the store, scared to death, and went over, clocked in, and talked to my friends. “Did you see Andre Rison? He left right before you came in! He bought a bunch of chicken and was driving a silver Mercedes!” Uh… you guys may not find this funny, but they sure did at the time. And yes, he really did buy a bunch of chicken. He used to jog around the isles in the store while his wife shopped, too.
–Tim
Met most of the Chiefs in my days working there.
We are the children of the Eighties. We are not the first “lost generation” nor today’s lost generation; in fact, we think we know just where we stand - or are discovering it as we speak.
I wish the store was aquatic. Make it aisles. Pricciam (sp?), thank you for the apology. On a note, though, I didn’t add the thing about white trash to make me right. I just added it to question our own acceptance of certain cultural prejudices (better phrase, for sure), while at the same time we condemn others.
Pricciar makes an excellent point. One I feel obliged to reiterate. Homer, I never called you a racist. I never judged you to be a racist. But the words you wrote, the face you were presenting to the world in that moment, were filled with racism.
What prompted me to comment it in the first place, and what motivates me still, is the fact that you seem unable to face up to that. You continue to whitewash the truth with claims of contextual shading and emotional mitigation. Let me be clear: There can be no excuse for perpetuating that type of racial hatred. There can be sorrow and contrition and heartfelt apologies. But you have evinced none of those.
I do not call you a racist. But I do say that you tolerate and excuse racism, both in yourself and in your friends. I hope you face up to that truth soon.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity