[QUOTE=panache45]
If you think their lifestyle is demonic, why have you read so many of their interviews? You’d have to go out of your way to read even one.
[/QUOTE]
True. But just because I regard it as such doesn’t keep it from enticing my soul (even though I have recommitted myself to Jesus recently).
[QUOTE=miss elizabeth]
I hate to say it, because it seems so obvious, but maybe this just means There is no God.
See, go ahead and assume there is no God. Now look at it again. See how it makes total sense? Yea.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I know 100% that God and Jesus and the devil exist. 100%, not 99%.
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans]
True. But just because I regard it as such doesn’t keep it from enticing my soul (even though I have recommitted myself to Jesus recently).
[/QUOTE]
Let me guess–a lot of committing and recommitting?
[QUOTE=Diceman]
Everybody who has faith has doubts about it. There are no exceptions. Even Jesus had his moments of weakness. (“My God, why have you abandoned me?”) The question is, do you allow your doubts to cripple you spiritually, or do you just accept that certain things must be taken on faith and move on?
I think that these revelations make Mother Teresa more compelling, not less. She did good things despite her doubts.
[/QUOTE]
I understand about doubts in general. But I am mindful of the scriptures that read something like, “Love God with all your heart and acknowledge Him in all you do and He will blaze the way of your path” and “Follow me and take up my burden, for my yoke is light.” And so it’s scriptures like these that make it hard for me to imagine why Mother Teresa was in such serious spiritual and emotional pain for so long while making such great sacrafice.
Yes, there’s no question she’s more compelling as a result of her admitted suffering.
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
Look, I am the least fan of Mother Teresa on these boards. Probably even less than Sampiro over there, considering what she did to my mother country.
But everyone has crises of faith. And I prefer a human, flawed character who does admit maybe they’re wrong to someone who blithely travels through life without ever even acknowledging the possibility they may be wrong. Doesn’t mean I like her now, but at the very least even she thought about it.
Besides, hasn’t anyone ever read the book of Job? People have been experiencing doubt since Day 1.
[/QUOTE]
I should have mentioned earlier that it was reported in the media that shortly before she died that she made a mention that an angel had visited her in a dream and told her that her time wasn’t quite up and that “there are no slums in heaven.”
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans]
I would think that many will now regard such a life path as being a waste
[/quote]
Why? Why do you need religious faith to want to do good things?
I’ve done a lot of volunteer work and I don’t believe in God. What does one have to do with the other?
Also, what’s wrong with fornication?
Yeah, I wonder what explanation there could possibly be for that.
[QUOTE=Zeriel]
There are many explanations for that sort of thing–anything from the agnostic/atheist explanation, to “their reward will be in heaven”, to the book of Job, to the deist theory of a god who watches but doesn’t affect.
Pick your poison, take your chances.
[/QUOTE]
Sure; but I suspect that people like radio shockjock Tom Leykis will get a lot of mileage putting his atheistic spin on her doubts and suffering, by telling his listening audience that it just shows that it’s all a bunch of crap and that therefore people should forget God and live for themselves.
God isn’t stupid. There must be a good reason why this happened to this saintly woman. I’ll have to think about it.
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans]
Actually, I know 100% that God and Jesus and the devil exist. 100%, not 99%.
[/QUOTE]
Hm, that’s funny. I’m 100% sure too. But it’s ok; my being right doesn’t involve you burning for eternity in a like of fire.
Anyway, I don’t want to get into a religious argument; I was trying to honestly answer your question. The reason she had doubts, and the reason God never responded is because He isn’t there.
But good luck re-committing yourself. 
[QUOTE=miss elizabeth]
Hm, that’s funny. I’m 100% sure too. But it’s ok; my being right doesn’t involve you burning for eternity in a like of fire.
Anyway, I don’t want to get into a religious argument; I was trying to honestly answer your question. The reason she had doubts, and the reason God never responded is because He isn’t there.
But good luck re-committing yourself.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the kind words.
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
Look, I am the least fan of Mother Teresa on these boards. Probably even less than Sampiro over there, considering what she did to my mother country.
[/QUOTE]
A slight hijack but could you elaborate on the bit I bolded? I’ve heard MT did some bad things in India, but I’m not sure what they are.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Why? Why do you need religious faith to want to do good things?
I’ve done a lot of volunteer work and I don’t believe in God. What does one have to do with the other?
Also, what’s wrong with fornication?
Yeah, I wonder what explanation there could possibly be for that.
[/QUOTE]
I responded a minute ago but maybe I made a mistake because it didn’t post. Right now I’m too tired to try again. Maybe later.
[QUOTE=Diceman]
Everybody who has faith has doubts about it. There are no exceptions. Even Jesus had his moments of weakness. (“My God, why have you abandoned me?”) The question is, do you allow your doubts to cripple you spiritually, or do you just accept that certain things must be taken on faith and move on?
I think that these revelations make Mother Teresa more compelling, not less. She did good things despite her doubts.
[/QUOTE]
I always try to read entire threads before jumping in, but I had to say this is exactly my reaction to the reportage about those letters. People of faith (not me) get strength for so many things from that faith. What strength she seems to have had to do whatever she did (sincere or not) without it.
Nitpick: Jesus’ beseeching could also be taken, not as doubt or loss of faith,* but an attempt to better understand.
[QUOTE=GuyNblueJeans]
Sure; but I suspect that people like radio shockjock Tom Leykis will get a lot of mileage putting his atheistic spin on her doubts and suffering, by telling his listening audience that it just shows that it’s all a bunch of crap and that therefore people should forget God and live for themselves.
[/quote]
I’m not too familiar with Leykis but I can tell that this is not typical of how atheists think and I doubt it’s how Leykis thinks either. The vast majority of atheists do NOT think life should be an amoral free-for-all. This may come as a shock to you but atheists feel empathy, love, compassion and even guilt just the same as theists. Those things are biologically hardwired and have nothing to do with religious faith.
I always find it very interesting indeed when some theists suggest that a lack of faith should naturally cause a person to become a marauding, psychopathic hedonist. Are they saying that fear of God is the only thing holding THEM back from living like Caligula? What does that say about them?
Marauding, psychopathic hedonism? I’ve strayed from the path. I need to re-commit myself to, er, some of that good old fashioned hedonism, I guess.
[QUOTE=Diceman]
…From the news reports I’ve read, Mother Teresa longed to feel Christ’s presence, and was upset that it didn’t seem to be happening…
[/QUOTE]
As a side note, this reminds me very much of the book “Through the Narrow Gate” by Karen Armstrong. She was a RCC nun for something like 10 or 15 years and suffered greatly during that time from what she felt was an absence of God’s presence in her life. She later went on to write several excellent books about religion and culture, which perhaps was her calling instead.
It all makes me wonder if it’s something that we all go through now and then, and that those in religious settings/professions feel it much more acutely, since they are supposed to be in better contact with God. It would stink to be a “Bride of Christ” and not be on speaking terms with your husband! (I kid, I kid…)
Seriously, though, I too would be interested in reading some of the threads on the controversy over Mother Theresa. I had no idea there was any ill feelings towards her. Can anyone provide a link to an especially informative one? Thanks!
I went to a not-particularly-enlightened Catholic high school in the mid-late 1960s. Vatican II had already come and gone, but we were otherwise still stuck ten years before that – people were having a hard time letting go of not eating meat on Firdays.
And yet, if there was one thing I was taught consistently in 4 years of religion classes, it was “if you don’t have doubts from time to time, you can’t really call it Believing.”
And that was even before I was taught by Jesuits!
If you believe in anything – whether it be God, the U.S. Constitution, the Big Bang Theory or that Bacon Salt Is Delicious – you’re going to have that belief assaulted on an almost daily basis. Questioning, doubt, introspection, they’re all part of the package.
[QUOTE=Zoggie]
Let me guess–a lot of committing and recommitting?
[/QUOTE]
Yes; that plus repenting and repenting and repenting some more, as well as doing things here and there to atone for some of it. In my case the porn has been my number one evil, thus I’ve decided (again) to not only never view any more of it but to also not even look at women that I find attractive for more than 5 seconds, be they in magazines or on TV or straight in front of me.
For some of us this thing called sex has been pretty much nothing but a curse. My guess is that satan regards it as his best weapon … going all the way back to the Garden of Eden and using it in these Last Days as a means to secretly stamp unsuspecting souls – by the millions! – with the 666. Or at least that’s what certain evidence suggests.
[QUOTE=miss elizabeth]
Hm, that’s funny. I’m 100% sure too. But it’s ok; my being right doesn’t involve you burning for eternity in a like of fire.
Anyway, I don’t want to get into a religious argument; I was trying to honestly answer your question. The reason she had doubts, and the reason God never responded is because He isn’t there.
But good luck re-committing yourself.
[/QUOTE]
Not to nit-pick, but the differential between KNOW and SURE is significant.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I’m not too familiar with Leykis but I can tell that this is not typical of how atheists think and I doubt it’s how Leykis thinks either. The vast majority of atheists do NOT think life should be an amoral free-for-all. This may come as a shock to you but atheists feel empathy, love, compassion and even guilt just the same as theists. Those things are biologically hardwired and have nothing to do with religious faith.
I always find it very interesting indeed when some theists suggest that a lack of faith should naturally cause a person to become a marauding, psychopathic hedonist. Are they saying that fear of God is the only thing holding THEM back from living like Caligula? What does that say about them?
[/QUOTE]
Sir; I didn’t mean to suggest that all atheists are like Mr. Leykis in their thinking. If you were familiar with the dude, you’d know that his preaching does in fact adhere to a sex-centered lifestyle. And, yes, even he makes mention from time to time that he does things to help others out by reaching into his pockets (that, according to him, are loaded with millions of dollars).
My point was simply that he, a useful idiot of the devil, will (or likely has by now) jump on this story and use it to justify his animosity towards religion.
Ultimately, of course, it doesn’t matter what people call themselves, as Jesus will be the one deciding their fate. He’s been way kind to me (in view of my many horrible transgressions) and thus I need to get it together and stop involving myself with evil, as should everyone else.
tomndebb – thanks for the two excellent links. That one, Dark Night of the Soul, is especially good.