Religion a valid non-hire condition?

Factual Questions
1

Hmmm. That was the best, most concise title I could think of. Kinda lame, ain’t it?

Mrs. Lightnin’ is currently trying for a new teaching position. She’s extremely qualified for it, and the person whom she’d be working under really wants her to get the position.

Oh, did I mention that the university she wants to teach at is a Lutheran one, and she’s an atheist?

Now, Mrs. Lightnin’ is one of the most moral people I know- boringly so at times, in my opinion- she just happens to not believe in god.

I guess that I should mention she’ll be teaching biology. She, of course, believes in evolution. So does the person who would be her supervisor. Apparently she would NOT be required to teach creationism. (I assume they’ve got other classes for that particular subject.) She’ll just be teaching biology.

Oh, and this is in Texas.

Now, could the school refuse to hire her strictly on the basis of her religion, or, more specifically, her lack thereof? If so, could an employer refuse to hire christians, if he so desired?

2

It is my understanding that non discrimination laws would prohibit the University from asking what religion a potential employee is.

I’ve got a friend who was raised Lutheran is teaching history at a Catholic high school in Salt Lake City Utah

3

There’s a lot of white space you didn’t fill in in your OP.

What is the school’s specific expectation/posture with respect to the privacy of personal beliefs. While being an atheist is fine if this becomes the topic of conversation and negative attitudes towards her by the admin. it is likely her opportunities for advancement and satisfaction with the position will be problematic and poor respectively.

On another note irrespective of the “law” (I doubt they can do much legally re personal beliefs if it doesn’t impact area of study) she needs to be practical about human nature and administrative politics which can be viper’s nests in academia.

Think about it. If it is revealed that one of your teachers/administrative staff is a devout atheist and you are running a school centered squarely on a theist values platform what do you think the administrations posture toward her will be? Choose your battles with common sense. With the limited info you gave it doesn’t seem like this would shape up to be the best or wisest choice for a long term career path at that school.

But hey… a jobs a job!

4

Oh Oh I know this one! If the school recieves ANY funds from the US Government it is forbidden from discrimiating based on Religion, Race or any other protected class. If the school is 100% funded by the church they can do whatever the heck they want.

5

I’ve had relatives and friends who have interviewed at sectarian schools and they have been asked their religion. I believe a religious school can ask such questions and use them as hiring factors.

When I attended a Catholic high school, there were two levels of tuition. Non-Catholics paid more.

6

Basicly the law says that you don’t have the right to hire/fire anyone based upon your religion, BUT there is an exception. Religious organizations are exempted from this rule. SO the school could use her atheism as a basis for not hiring her. (though to the school may need to be a non-prophet org. in order to qualify, I am not sure.)

7

I know in the private sector it’s against the law to even >ask< someone their religion (or their age, though you can confirm that they are between 18 and 70). The only time you can is if it’s relevant to the job (if you were applying for a minister’s position, for instance).

I don’t believe the Lutherans are hung up on Creationism; certainly not to the degree of other denominations, so I doubt that will be an issue.

8

Well, considering the school is religious, I doubt it is a non-prophet organization. After all, prophets play a role in most religions. The prophets dictate what happens, after all. Religions who have shown more prophets tend to gather more members, and it helps if those prophets are recent. Of course, the IRS can’t touch religious seers: All prophets a religion has are tax-free.

The institution may well be a non-profit organization, however.

9

:smiley:

Musta forgot that in my above post.

10

Religious beliefs most certainly should not be a factor in the decision to hire your SO.

Perhaps if she were applying for a teaching position involving a course such as: “Why The Lutheran Faith is the ONLY true faith” I could see where there would be a conflict. But in hiring for the position in question, a persons beliefs should be considered about as much as when they’re hiring support staff.

11

Not to hijack the thread, but…

Say that you were interviewing somebody and in the course of conversation it became clear that they believed in the Easter Bunny. Wouldn’t you think they were nuts and not hire them?

How is that different from somebody who believes in Jesus/Krishna/Buddha/Mohammed/God/Yahweh?

12

Granted this is slightly different, but I was looking at an admissions application for Calvin College in Grand Rapids, MI. A Jewish friend of mine applied for a job there, but was turned down. I forget whether or not they asked her religion directly, but they figured out pretty quickly that she wasn’t Christian and she didn’t get the job. (She wasn’t hurt too much by this.)

Anyway on the college application, there are three sections which are optional: Birthdate, marital status, and ethnicity.

There is a section where you have to fill in the name of your church and your pastor. One of the essays is to describe your religious beliefs.

So, I think it’s safe to say that your religious beliefs can be asked about in certain situations. Primarily in areas where religion is central to the whole issue.

13

A valid concern–although I knew an atheist who taught philosophy at the Catholic Seminary in Detroit in the 60s and 70s.

14

Whether religious beliefs or non-beliefs are a VALID basis for not hiring someone is more a matter for Great Debates than for General Questions.

If the question is a purely practical one (“is a religious college likely to shun me because I’m an atheist, or not a member of their church?”), the answer depends largely on the individual college and/or church, and how the colege views its mission.

I GUARANTEE, for example, that the faculty at Notre Dame is NOT dominated bydevout Catholics! There are plenty of Jewish, Protestant, agnostic, ____ (fill in the blank) professors there. I can say the same, without hesitation, about nearly all major Catholic colleges in America. So, if your wife were to apply for a teaching position at ANY major Catholic college in America, her non-belief wouldn’t matter. In fact, the issue probably would never come up in the interview.

I don’t know the particular Lutheran college you have in mind, but once again, I’d be VERY surprised if religion were an issue. If and when your wife gets the job, she may very well find very few (if any) devout Lutherans in the Science department.

The only places that religion MIGHT matter are Southern, fundamentalist Bible colleges, like Bob Jones University. But even at colleges you’d THINK were dominated by fundamentalists, there’s more diversity than you might think. Baylor, for example, is a Baptist college that enforces a lot of rules… but their science departments and medical school are highly regarded, and I’d be astonished if those departments were dominated by fundamentalists.

My guess is, at most Catholic or “mainline” Protestant colleges, she’d be hired in an instant, if her credentials in her field are solid.

15

Well, actually, astorian, the question is, “is it legal for her to be denied a job, simply based on her religion (or lack thereof)?”

If it’s not, and she gets asked her religion, and she doesn’t get the job, I’m looking forward to supplementing our income with some lawsuit money. Bring it on, I say. :slight_smile:

16

Hijack, indeed. Keep that crap out of my forum.

17

This brings to mind an old Southern joke:

A young man has been vainly seeking a teaching posiiton for months. At long last, he gets an interview for a high-paying teaching job at what SEEMS like a wonderful school.

All through the interview, things seem to be going well. The principal seems to like him. He really thinks he’s going to get the job. But theprincipal’s FINAL question is “Do you believe in Darwin’s theory of evolution.”

The applicant honestly doesn’t know what answer the principal wants to hear. Is the principal a fundamentalist? A secular humanist? Which answer would get him the job, and which answer would get him booted out?

“Well,” said the applicant, “personally, yes, I do. But I can teach both ways.”

And THAT, I suspect, is the key. Is a religious school legally entitled to a set of beliefs and principles? Yes. Is it entitled to make those beliefs and principles the foundation of its curriculum? Yes. Is it entitled to insists that its faculty adhere to the curriculum as it’s outlined? Again, yes.

Now then, given all that, CAN a school legally require that Mrs. Lightning (or any other instructor) teach that Darwinian theory is bunk, and that God created the Earth in 6 days? Yes, absolutely. It is then up to Mrs. Lightning to decide whether she’s willing to teach things she doesn’t believe in. My hunch is, IF she told the administration, “I’m an atheist, but I need this job so badly, I’m perfectly willing to teach things your way,” the school PROBABLY wouldn’t have a legal leg to stand on if it said, “No atheists need apply.”

Once again, as a PRACTICAL matter, very few religious colleges would care all that much about the religious practices/non-practices of its employees. If you really think the physics and biology departments at SMU, Georgetown, or ___ (fill in the name of your favorite non-fundamentalist religious college) are dominated by devout Christians, you’re nuts!

IF Mrs. Lightning doesn’t get the job, I’ll be verysurprised if her beliefs were a factor. She’s HIGHLY unlikely to be the first or only avowed non-believer in her department.

18

I think Dolphinboy’s got it right.

From today’s Houston Chronicle, found at http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/857396 :

"Baylor, which as a private institution can legally make hiring decisions based on religion, has had only a handful of Jewish professors in its history, Sloan said, but none with expertise in Jewish studies. The president said he hopes Baylor will always have at least one Jewish scholar “because our faith is inextricably linked to the Jewish faith and Jewish history.”

School spokesman Larry Brumley said that for many years the university has been attempting to increase the racial and religious diversity of its faculty as part of an effort to improve its academic reputation. However, Baylor is committed to maintaining a strong core of Baptist faculty members, he said.

According to university statistics, roughly half of Baylor’s 660 full-time faculty members are Baptists, and almost all the others are members of other Protestant denominations. Ninety-three percent of the faculty is white."