In general, the more well off and educated people are, the less religious they are (except for a few highly intellectual people, but then it’s because such people can run anything up into a big deal). For example in Sweden only 5% of the people go to church,and there are similar low figures in other well off and rational countries. Ireland is evidently an exception and even England, and America and even bigger exception, where we always have this annoying strain of religiosity, currently in the form of the usual raving pastors on tv and Lieberman and Dr. Laura. Nearly all Americans are believers. Either we are not as well educated as we think or else there is some other reason for all this religious insanity that we hear about all the time. For instance there is always a bunch in Congress who invoke the Lord and morality. A related question: does the Divine or God ever feel insulted by some of the things said and done in His Name?
Please explain how Lieberman is part of the “annoying strain of religiosity.”
The dude is Jewish, but he doesn’t try to force his values on those around him, like some people (cough, Dr. Laura, cough).
I don’t have a problem with people practicing religion as long as they keep it to themselves.
Where did you get the idea that the English are religious? Many may claim to be believers when questioned but church attendance is very low and dropping fast.
I find nothing incompatable between intelligence and “morality” as you put it in your post. For that matter, I find nothing incompatable between intelligence and faith.
But yes, I’m quite sure God is offended by the actions of some who claim to be religious. If you review the Gospels you’ll see a consistent thread of Jesus rrailing against hypocrites.
I’ve found Americans to be fairly irreligious, even when they say they aren’t.
My mom used to cart us all to church every Sunday. But then when my dad was transferred to DC for 9 years, she didn’t go at all, except for Easter and Christmas to the National Cathedral. When they retired and moved back to Colorado, she was back into the thick of church life.
At my church, the services are fairly well attended, but you can always find parking. But last Easter, all the lots were full, and they were parking cars on the lawn. The sanctuary was packed. When our minister started the service with her usual welcoming and greeting of guest, she slyly mentioned that the church holds services every Sunday at 9:30 and 11:00. All us regulars got a good little chuckle out of that. :)
Religion was invented to appease the masses. When man didn’t understand something they attributed it to a god, ie rain, sun, fertility. As religion evolved less and less was attributed to a God and more and more was a science. So the more educated you are, the more science you have been exposed to, the less likely you are to attribute an unknown to God and the more likely you are to use science to solve the unknown. As for Americans, our ancestors were Puritans, a very strick religion. We have come along way in 200 years but we have a very long way to go.
All our ancestors weren’t Puritans, as millions of Italian and Irish-descended Americans will tell you, but the Puritans definitely did found the country and their influence has been, and remains, profound. From what I’ve
heard, most mainstream Protestant denominations, like Presbyterians and Methodists, grew out of a Puritan core. As they grew in membership, they tended to get less strict.
Still, when Prohibition was imposed in 1920, the mainstream Protestant sects were right behind it.
WiredGuy’s theory of religion is along the lines of the 5th-century BC Greek Sophist Prodicus; also see Protagoras, and 6th-century BC Heraclitus, Xenophanes, and Empedocles. Protagoras said,“Man is the measure of all things,” Heraclitus indicated that God was rational Mind, the Logos, which was like a fire in that things seemed to be in constant change, but all for a Reason; Xenophanes said that humans tend to depict their gods as looking like themselves, giving the example of Thracians having gods who have blond hair and blue eyes, like Thracians–he also said if cattle and lions had hands and could draw, their gods would be depicted as cattle and lions, respectively; and Empedocles said that the real deity doesn’t travel around and go here and there (like the gods at the time), and I think he added or one of the others did, that God doesn’t have hands and feet. In the Bible Elijah specifically mocks the kind of god that travels around, and he tells the people to cry louder to Baal, “Mayhap he is on a journey and cannot hear you.” I just thought of Pythagoras, for whom God was actually apparently the structure or mathematics of the universe. My Great-Aunt Agnes used to say that whatever else, God has a lot of explaining to do when she gets up there. I say you can’t argue with personal experience, and if somebody has one with God why argue with it. One of the punishments for atheism is atheism. Also an Episcopalian told me of the Christian Doctrine of Invincible Ignorance.
Those who have heard the Word but still can’t believe it still get to go to heaven if they tried to believe it.
My favorite is the spirit world. I think we all go to the spirit world and are physical there with respect to each other and objects, but there is no suffering. Also I wonder what the Bible meant when it said in heaven there is no marrying or giving in marriage. Maybe it means we don’t have to be married, which would be nice.
I was surprised to read recently that 8 percent of Americans declared themselves atheists. I didn’t know there were so many of us! And those were only the ones who were willing to admit it!
That’s almost as many atheists as black people or gay people—howcum we don’t stand up for our rights more? Marches? Songs? Our own TV network? A holiday?
Theres alot more than 8 percent. I’m openly atheist, that sounds funny, and many people, when they find out, confide in me that they too are non believers but are afraid too tell people. Its just that athiests don’t feel the need to convert people so they don’t make as much noise. As for the holidays, every religious holiday is really a pagan holiday in disguise.
What distinction do you make between pagan and religious?
The prevalence of religion in our society has basically one cause: kids are not taught how to think. From a very early age, virtually every child has his/her parents’ beliefs shoved down his throat. Kids are taught WHAT to believe, not HOW to think. When we’re young, we’re not taught how to evaulate a new idea, let alone an entire belief system. When we encounter a new idea - whether our own or someone else’s - we’re not taught how to either reject it or integrate it into our belief system, or adjust our belief system to accommodate the new idea. We are not taught how to question authority, whether that authority is a parent, a teacher, a minister or a president or a pope. We’re not taught to demand REASONS to support beliefs, only to accept whatever ideas we’re told to believe. So what we have is a big chunk of the adult population that’s able to quote bible passages, chapter and verse, but is unable to come up with one original thought on any subject. And of course, each generation is thinking less and less. It’s amazing the things that people believe in - and not just religious beliefs - without a shred of evidence. Yet they’re scornful of the person who thinks and expects them to.
OK, who wants to help out the mods and explain precisely what the General Question is here?
Don, as Manhattan points out you don’t seem to be asking a question but trying to make a point. This probably belongs in great debates or IMHO.
As for your observations keep in mind that correlation does not always mean causality. Even if your observations are correct one might might draw the conclusion that prosperous cultures have forsaken God because of vanity.
As for your related question I don’t think even the teeming millions can presume to speak for God but he probably is ticked off about the evil things claimed to be done in his name.
As an interesting (at least to me) sidebar:
MacLean’s, a national Canadian magazine, commissioned a “what’s the difference between us and Americans” survey about three years ago. I don’t have that issue at hand, alas, but one question went something like, “Would you vote for someone running for high public office if their religion was…”
For both countries the results were mostly similar. Christian, 95%, Jewish, Muslim, Bhuddist, 75 - 80%. The major difference showed up under Atheist. Canadians put atheists on a par to Jews, Muslims, etc. as people they would vote for. For Americans, atheists dropped to around 40% support.
So, I guess if I ever decide to run for public office, I just stay right here in Canada