Come on, all you lapsed Jews, I’ll say it our loud: Do the laws of “Kashrut” (making things kosher) smack to anyone else of OCD? ;j
Let’s start with a simple example: The command in the Torah (paraphrased) that that “Thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother’s milk” has been rabinically extended to not letting you eat a chicken sandwich with cheese. Just a LITTLE to far, don’t you think?
And here’s a cite (from “Judaism 101” [URL=http://www.jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm :
I’m sure I could come up with a hundred others…
(and for an interesting side discussion of OCD and religion, any of you out there familiar with “Xenocide” by Orson Scott Card?)
And as far as I concerned, ALL organized religion is essentially OCD.
Note: Organized Religion != Belief in a Creator. You can be a Theist (believe in a Creator without subscribing to a set of behaviors supposably mandates by It); you can also be a “dyed in the wool” communist or environmentalist or … - Organized “religion” without reference to god/God.
OCD - Obsessive repetition of some action. The archtypal example being Lady MacBeth and her handwashing (“seeing blood” all the time). Sort of like a mantra taken to extremes. (I know this isn’t an exact definition, but IANAP).
OP is saying that Jewish dietary laws are indistinguishable from OCD in that these laws force you to repeat various actions over and over again (different blessing for different foods; Can I have a glass of milk yet, has it been six hours since that steak? etc…).
I am saying that almost any organized “cause” is a form of OCD, in that the participants are willingly letting themselves into a repetitive behavior pattern (such as some “environmentalists” “knee-jerking” at every cigarette butt they see…, etc.). Basically, I think that most of these people would be making up their own little rites and rituals if they hadn’t joined someone else’s. So organized religion is not necessarily a BAD thing in this respect - it doesn’t TURN people into OCDers, but rather channels their prediliction to OCD into pre-defined forms.
The exterme cases, of course, are the ones you read about that have been contantly washing their hands for the last 15 years (e.e., again, Lady MacBeth). Most people don’t go that far` on the other hand, most of us are “comfortable” with our own little rituals. In the end, its a matter of degree, and I tend to think that there is a corelation between being closer to a Medical case of OCD and “Having Religion”.
OCD - Obsessive and/or Compulsive repetition of some action. The archtypal (if fictional) example being Lady MacBeth and her handwashing (“seeing blood” all the time). Sort of like a mantra taken to extremes. (I know this isn’t an exact definition, but IANAP).
OP is saying that Jewish dietary laws are indistinguishable from OCD in that these laws force you to repeat various actions and/or thought processes over and over again (different blessing for different foods; Can I have a glass of milk yet, has it been six hours since that steak? etc…).
I am saying that almost any organized “cause” is a form of OCD, in that the participants are willingly letting themselves into a repetitive behavior pattern (such as some “environmentalists” “knee-jerking” at every cigarette butt they see… - actually, some “health freaks” too. Put both terms in quotes [and added “some”] as a way of trying to avoid pi**ing off more serious and moderate proponents of said causes ). Basically, I think that most of these people would be making up their own little rites and rituals if they hadn’t joined someone else’s. So organized religion is not necessarily a BAD thing in this respect - it doesn’t TURN people into OCDers, but rather channels their prediliction to OCD into pre-defined forms.
The exterme cases, of course, are the ones you read about that have been constantly washing their hands for the last 15 years (e.g., again, Lady MacBeth). Most people don’t go that far; on the other hand, most of us are “comfortable” with our own little rituals (toilet paper coming out OVER or UNDER, anybody? ). In the end, its a matter of degree, and I tend to think that there is a correlation between being closer to a Medical case of OCD and “Having Religion”.
You’ll notice also that none of these behaviors are group oriented, and by definition the person doing them (if not a child) must be aware on some level that the obsessions and compulsions are abnormal and excessive.
Thanks, Gnat - that’s kind of what I was getting at.
The same actions could be considered pathological or beneficial depending on the results. OCD makes you do things for no benefit - indeed, you are aware that they are “abnormal and excessive.” If those same actions bring you comfort or happiness or peace (which is what I understand kosher laws do for people who keep them) then it is quite different.
And, of course, if the kosher laws become obsessive, then yes, it would be OCD. But they remain separate animals.
The act of participation in the religion is what keeps it from being a disorder.
It would be OCD if they were so preocupied with the details of cleaning that the didn’t actually get clean or ever actually fulfill their purpose despite intent to do so.
The definition of most disorders includes something like “must cause clinically significant impairment in social emotional or occupational functioning”
The act of participation in the religion is what keeps it from being a disorder.
It would be OCD if they were so preocupied with the details of cleaning that the didn’t actually get clean or ever actually fulfill their purpose despite intent to do so.
The definition of most disorders includes something like “must cause clinically significant impairment in social emotional or occupational functioning”
). In the end, its a matter of degree, and I tend to think that there is a correlation between being closer to a Medical case of OCD and “Having Religion”.