Religious and Christian are not synonymous

Great Debates
1

In that, it is possible for one to be religious and not be a Christian. (In theory, I suppose it is also possible for one to call onesself Christian and be irreligious, but I find that fairly unlikely.)

I’ve seen an awful lot of threads around here (in GD) lately asking what “religious” people think.

As a religious person I enter the thread, only to discover that the person in question wants the opinions of Christians, or that subset known as Fundamentalist Christians, not the opinion of all religious people.

Maybe there’s something I’m missing here. I understand presuming that most religious folk are Christian (particularly for those in Western locales) but I would think that there are enough non-Christian-but-still-devoted-to-their-religion folks around here that a Doper who wants Christian opinions (or who wants to drag Christians through the muck in the Pit) would be a touch more specific.

2

Interestingly enough, in the fundamentalist camp, it is a common mindset that Christianity (read: the fundamentalists particular flavor of Xianity) is not a religion, it is “the truth”. I know many Christians, myself formerly included, who bristled at the notion that we were “religious”.

A popular Christian musician named Steve Camp even has a song out called “I’m Not Religious, I Just Love The Lord”.

In America, being “religious” almost always means “Christian”. That would not be true in other parts of the world, for example Tibet.

Good point SC.

3

Yeah, I noticed that too SisterCoyote…

Zev Steinhardt

4

It’s sort of an interesting pointer to how demographics color thought. America is dripping all over with Christianity in various forms, so people just automatically conflate it with religion in general. I would imagine much the same thing happens elsewhere (or elsewhen) where Religion X has the majority vote.

5

I don’t know if there is a country where the religious balance is so one-sided as in America.

But yes, I’m also annoyed by this trend. When people in real life assume I’m a Christian because I’m an American, I can write it off. But when dopers do it…well, consarnit it all, I’m supposed to be able to hold these people to a higher standard!

6

Um… Iran? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? The default mindset there is Islam, even more strongly and fundamentally than the xtian mindset in the US

7

Yeah, probably. Just cause I can’t think of one doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

8

The catchphrase is “It’s not a religion, it’s a relationship.” (I hate that saying).

Still, I have seen what the OP describes, where “religious” is often used instead of “Fundamentalist Christian” and “spiritual” is used for the same categories of behaviors if done by someone who isn’t a fundamentalist Christian.

9

Shh, ZEV and CMKELLER and ALLESAN and SHAYNA may hear you.

And, FWIW, in Tibet being “religious” almost always means being Buddhist.

10

I know well that catchphrase – FWIW, I always get the feeling that it’s not uttered to establish the issue at hand here (that Christianity is the ‘null hypothesis’), but rather to just plain be pithy and ‘in-your-face’.

I work with a guy whom other conservative Christians in the office consider a nut.

He once defiantly blurted out to me: “It’s not a religion – it’s a RELATIONSHIP!!”

To which I replied that since the First Amendment doesn’t guarantee freedom of relationship (and I cited gay couples as potential beneficiaries if I were wrong about this), Christians are apparently not deserving of any Constitutional protections.

He grumbled under his breath that “for the purposes of the Constitution, Christianity is a religion”.

To which I said, “I had a feeling it would be!”

A lady in the office who is of Jewish faith winked surreptitiously at me over this exchange.

FU Shakespeare

11

Too late, Jodi. See above. But thanks for thinking of me… :slight_smile:

Zev Steinhardt

12

FWIW, this song was written and released by Scott Wesley Brown in 1979

13

Libertarian has an interesting perspective on adherence to Christ vs. “religion” that I’ll leave him to explain better than I could paraphrase him.

And yes, I’ve seen a great deal of this sort of thing – including from people whose views I generally respect. In a private discussion, I was completely baffled by a Christian of generally intelligent and incisive views referring to cmkeller as “not a believing Jew” – since I know few if any Jews of a more devout faith than Chaim – until I finally realized that he was contrasting Chaim to Messianic Jews, and describing him as “not a believing Jew” where “believing” meant “believing in Christ.”

Then there’s the moral question – obviously, bereft of faith in the one true God, you Neopagans, agnostics, and atheists cannot have any proper ethics! :rolleyes:

There are times I worry about my co-religionists.

14

I worry too Poly :smiley:

slight hijack…
Thanks for the clarification, Tinker. Did Camp ever sing it? Or is my memory failing? Heh.

15

I call myself a Christian, but struggle with what “believing in Christ” entails. I think of myself as religious, but not as in a relationship. I guess I’m not a fundie. :wink:

16

As Poly said, I call myself a Christian despite that I am underserving of the term. Jesus defines a Christian (one who follows Christ) as someone who loves others. “By this will all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another.” I love insufficiently. And I believe that my moral journey entails learning how to love.

That said, I bristle when I am called religious. Why? Well, it isn’t particularly because of one common definition of religion, meaning adherence to a belief in a Supreme Being. Rather, I think it’s because of the most common connotation, meaning adherence to a belief in a Supreme Body Politic.

Religion is one of those disciplines — like government or business — where politicians flourish. Men seek to control and manipulate other men for their own gain. I see images of bats flying out of belfries. Knights fighting Crusades. Church elders punishing Galileo.

In almost every personal encounter with people, Jesus was meek and humble, stooping to wash the feet of other men, visiting only where He was welcomed, assuring those who thought themselves worthless that He and His Father valued them beyond all measure. He forgave sin when merely asked. He healed sickness for nothing in return.

But although there were notable exceptions, almost every time that He confronted religious leaders (the politicians of the temple), He cut them no slack. And in fact, in one chapter of Matthew, He lambasted them in a no-holds-barred soliloquy, calling them “Snakes!” and “Vipers!” and “Whitewashed tombs, all clean and white on the outside, but inside full of dead men’s bones and decay!” He said that they search the ends of the earth for one convert and, having found him, turn him into “twice the son of hell you are yourselves.”

If it were easy to separate the “religion” of a humble person of faith with the “religion” of Jerry Falwell, then it would be different. But unfortunately, it seems that the whole politics thing is so entrenched that it will forever taint people of faith themselves. That’s why I say God despises religion. Religion glorifies men, not God.

So, while it might sound trite to say that it’s not a religion but a relationship, there is a reason that some people say it. And if someone asks me whether the first amendment protects relationships, my response is that the first amendment protects whatever the politicians want it to protect and nothing more.

Anyway, that’s how I see it.

17

Basically, I agree with your sentiments Lib but no completely. This may sound nit-picking, but Jesus never defined what a Christian is because there wasn’t such a thing until Paul came along with his cohorts like Luke and introduced the idea of Jesus being the Christ. Christians like to say that Christ means the same thing as Messiah. I don’t think you’d get someone like Zev to back that up. To me the term Christianity is harder to take than being considered religious, which I can be without belonging to an organized religion. I do belong to an organized religion, but that doesn’t change the above fact in my mind.

Also if the idea of organized religion was so foreign to Jesus, why did he say “upon this rock I will build my church”?

18

To truncate a quote from Bertrand Russell, “I am not a Christian”.

And I am admittedly hostile to this whole religion/relationship declaration dichotomy.

But, Libertarian, your post has got me reconsidering my conviction on the subject.

Something that doesn’t happen very often.

Thanks,

FU Shakespeare

19

Read enough of Lib’s stuff and you will reconsider many things!
[sub]yes Lib, that was a compliment :-)[/sub]

20

A close friend of mine is very involved in his church. We will call him to see if he wants to drop by, and he can’t - church meeting. Last summer he spent two weeks at a church retreat (church camp).

He is Wiccan.

(Church is his choice of words, not mine. I think he enjoys the irony of it all).