religious view of the death penalty?

[x-ray_vision]

No its not. Yo must argue to the death.

[emarkp]

@askeptic

Emark, although I do not know enough about those wacky LDS, I must point out that your cite is not dispositive of the alegation you are attempting to refute.

[ul][]My username is emarkp, not “Emark”[]I am one of “those wacky LDS.”[]The reference I provided explained that so-called “blood atonement” was never official doctrine, though it’s clear some early church leaders believed it. The Utah legislature asked for an official clarification from the LDS church (likely for the purpose of showing their constituents that removing the firing-squad law was against their beliefs).[]If you’d like to start a thread on this particular sub-topic to discuss it more, but it’s already been done–around the time the story I cited ran (though I can’t seem to find the thread right now).[/ul]

[askeptic]

[QUOTE=emarkp]
[ul][li]My username is emarkp, not “Emark”[]I am one of “those wacky LDS.”[]The reference I provided explained that so-called “blood atonement” was never official doctrine, though it’s clear some early church leaders believed it. The Utah legislature asked for an official clarification from the LDS church (likely for the purpose of showing their constituents that removing the firing-squad law was against their beliefs).[*]If you’d like to start a thread on this particular sub-topic to discuss it more, but it’s already been done–around the time the story I cited ran (though I can’t seem to find the thread right now).[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]

I also apologize for my unwarranted disrespectful comment concerning “Those wacky LDS” it was uncalled for and I regret making it. I must have not seen the same article, the one I read talked about not executing people on Friday or monday to avoid paying overtime. And abolishing the firing squad in favor of the gas chamber. I have no desire to engage in a critical debate as to anyones particular religious beliefs. I believe that religion is a personal issue and am ashamed at my vulgar reference to your religion. Once again I hope you will forgive me.

[Shodan]

@askeptic

I feel that an entire people could be in violation of the dictates of Christ, that is to the extent they profess belief in his teachings. The mere fact that an act is sanctioned by earthly government does not mean that it is just. No more than a government that conducted the Holocaust was immune from His teachings. A law that violates the teachings of Christ condemns the vary people that tolerate the law.

No, but the general principle is that the state can do things that would be unjust if committed by a private individual. Including and especially punishments.

If someone robs me and I lock him in my basement for five years, that is kidnapping. If the state does it, it is punishment. And since the state is disinterested in the case in a way that I am not, this moves from vengeance to justice. Same with execution. If I kill someone in retaliation for killing for killing my sister, that is blood feud, because I am acting on my own behalf and not disinterestedly. If the state executes someone for murder, it is acting on behalf of all its citizens, and therefore is acting disinterestedly.

I am not arguing, and Christian thinking about the just state is not arguing, that whatever is sanctioned by the state is just. What I am arguing is that the state can do things that could not be justified for private individuals.

If I take money from you under the threat of force, and use it to make my house payment, that is theft. But taxation in order to pay the telephone bill of the state government is justified, even if ultimately it is made with the threat of force or prison if I don’t comply.

@askeptic

Please, do not misunderstand, I am niether a Christian nor do I adhere to Christian doctrine.

Well, I am and I do, mostly

@askeptic

My original question was an attempt to understand how those who advocate Christian beliefs could reconcile their support of the death penalty with the teachings expressed in THEIR bible.

I posted earlier the Scripture and reasoning that I use to justify my view of the just state and of the death penalty. The teachings of Christ are not as monolithic as it may seem. As far as I can tell, there is no necessary contradiction between what Christ teaches for individuals and what He establishes for the state.

@askeptic

I ask this with the understanding (possibly mistaken) that no major Christian organization supports the death penalty. I was wondering how those who claim allegience to these organizations can ignore the position of the leaders of their own faiths.

There are more than a few major sects who support, or do not oppose, the death penalty. My own synod opposes it.

But the distinction to be kept in mind is between the doctrines of the faith and the opinions of the bishops (in my synod). The core doctrines of the Christian faith are contained in the Apostle’s, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds. None of them express any opposition to the death penalty. As far as I know, the Pope has never spoken ex cathedra on the subject of the death penalty, and therefore it is not a matter of faith and morals for Roman Catholics to oppose the DP. As I am not Catholic, I am under no obligation to obey the Pope’s teaching in any case. And, in my opinion, the bishops of my synod are wrong about the death penalty. But they have no authority to impose, nor am I under any obligation to defer to, their political positions, many of which are a good bit more liberal than I care for. It doesn’t matter all that much. Where they are right, I support them, where they are wrong (as they are, in my opinion, on the DP) I ignore or oppose them.

It is not a core doctrine, or a “salvation issue” as I mentioned earlier. Good thing too, or I would be off to one of the more politically conservative denominations like a shot.

Regards,
Shodan