[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Actually, **DrDeth **brings up a good point, although I don’t think he meant to. “Actual witchcraft” aka Wicca, has absolutely nothing in common with the public image green skinned warty nosed witch, nor the gorgeous corseted blackeyed make-shit-fly-around-the-room and lightening bolts witch of Charmed, Buffy, The Craft or Practical Magic. So why do Wiccans (and some other neopagans) call themselves witches? Conversely, why do Hollywood writers include Wiccan elements - circle casting, four elements and directions, salt, etc. - in their Hollywood witches?
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As I understand it, it’s based on the theory that the Christian persecution of “witches” in Europe, while purportedly aimed at people who worshipped (and frequently met) the Devil and cast evil spells (this misconception is now referred to as “Gothic Satanism”), was actually aimed at holdovers still practicing the Old Religion – the lore of which really did happen to include midwifery, herbal healing, (usually nonmalicious) spellcasting, and veneration of a Horned God not to be confused with Satan. IOW, “witch” and “pagan” really are essentially the same thing. (See The Witch-Cult in Western Europe, by Margaret Murray, an influential book no longer considered credible by anthropologists if it ever was.)
Also, “witch” is supposed to be derived from an Old English word meaning “wise” or “cunning.” “Wicked” supposedly comes from the same root. That name would be just too cool to give up!
They don’t mean the same thing at all. A modern Wiccan “Witch” is a Minister/Priestess/Deacon of a fairly modern* Western Religion. From your cite "O.E. wicce “female magician, sorceress,” in later use esp. “*a woman supposed to have dealings with the devil or evil spirits * and to be able by their cooperation to perform supernatural acts,” fem. of O.E. wicca “sorcerer, wizard, man who practices witchcraft or magic,” (italics mine)
A modern Wiccan “Witches” blessings/spells have exactly the same effectiveness as a Christian Ministers blessings/Prayers.
Nothing wrong with being modern- Wicca isn’t much newer than several Protestant faiths.
BrainGlutton- while it’s not impossible that some of the Middle ages “Witches” had some remants of ceremonies from Pagan days, there is no evidence at all of this. Most were apparantly just fortune-tellers and/or herbalists, not “pagan priestesses” (or Satanists) at all. Of course, if one is already an illegal and persecuted “witch” and one has a good knowledge of herbs, one could also be turned to for poisons, which is what some think the OT word “witch” is meant. And, of course, having the trappings of “black satanic magic” could be useful if you wanted to scare people. But then again, most people were strongly Christian back then, and they strongly beleived in the Devil- thus certainly some could have turned to “#2” for aid.
[QUOTE=DrDeth] BrainGlutton- while it’s not impossible that some of the Middle ages “Witches” had some remants of ceremonies from Pagan days, there is no evidence at all of this. Most were apparantly just fortune-tellers and/or herbalists, not “pagan priestesses” (or Satanists) at all. Of course, if one is already an illegal and persecuted “witch” and one has a good knowledge of herbs, one could also be turned to for poisons, which is what some think the OT word “witch” is meant. And, of course, having the trappings of “black satanic magic” could be useful if you wanted to scare people. But then again, most people were strongly Christian back then, and they strongly beleived in the Devil- thus certainly some could have turned to “#2” for aid.
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bolding mine
Right. And MOST of those fortune-tellers and herbalists (and midwives, they were popular targets) were *Christians *- first Catholics, during the Reformation, then Protestants, during the Counter-Reformation - being tried and convicted of “heresy (and witchcraft)” (because heresy meant you were in league with the devil, which meant you were a witch.) A *few *might have been atheist or agnostic, and its possible some followed some old animistic or tribal beliefs. But no one was burned for being a modern, feminist oriented nature spiritualist focusing on self-improvement through meditative techniques (and forms lifted directly from Western Ceremonial Magick and Freemasonry).
The Wiccan myth that 9 million of their direct spiritual and biological ancestors were killed in a few years in Europe during a period of systematic Christian oppression and terror is just flat out wrong. The earliest reference to it is in a museum that Gerald Gardner bought in 1952. It had in it a memorial to those 9 million, and Gardner repeated the number until it became “fact”. But there is NO evidence for it.
In defense of Wicca, some people are indeed standing on rooftops and shouting the truth. “The Burning Times was bad!” We keep saying, “No need to make up fanciful stories when the truth is bad enough! It just makes people think we’re silly illiterates who don’t know history, and if we can’t accept literal truth, why should we think we have a spiritual Truth?” It’s hard to see whether we’re having much effect, though. Like I said, people like to feel persecuted.
Here and here are a couple of articles trying to set things straight.
[QUOTE=DrDeth] BrainGlutton- while it’s not impossible that some of the Middle ages “Witches” had some remants of ceremonies from Pagan days, there is no evidence at all of this.
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That’s why I said “theory.”
Some Wiccans do claim to have a “family tradition” antedating Gardner, but there is no way to prove this, nor, if true, to determine whether it really goes back to pre-Christian times or not.
[QUOTE=Antinor01]
My guess on why Hollywood likes to incorporate the elements, it makes for great effects! Mysterious rituals, people chanting in a circle with black candles all around them and then bizarre shit happening…it just looks cool.
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I’m quite fond of the bohemian, urban witches & warlocks of Bell, Book & Candle–although I realize they don’t represent any “real” group.
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
I’m quite fond of the bohemian, urban witches & warlocks of Bell, Book & Candle–although I realize they don’t represent any “real” group.
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I know a witch who named her cat Pywacket after that film.
