As far as I know, this has never been addressed in detail on the Dope before, so although I know a little about renting an apartment in Germany, because I left at an early age, I don’t know why there are so many “Neben-Kosten” (additional charges) attached to an apartment rental.
So I would like one of our German Dopers (Or American Dopers living in Germany) to address this, and explain exactly what is involved in renting an apartment in Deutschland.
Please pay special attention to the terms “kalt” and “warm”.
BTW, this isn’t meant as a criticism, only to point out the differences between apartment rental in the 2 countries.
I think I can probably help you because Mr. Montdore is a German citizen who owns apartment buildings in Germany. However, your OP is a bit vague. Could you post some specific questions? I’ll ask him to answer them. Do you want the reply in German or English?
Basically what I wanted (in English, please) is just an explanation of what is required to rent an apartment in Germany and how it differs from renting one here in the US.
In other words, when I returned to GTermany back in 1990, after having been away since I was 11, I was surprised to find out I would need to buy wallpaper, refrigerator, stove and kitchen cabinetry.
These things are usually provided here in the US, and I just wanted someone to give a detailed explanation as to how those things are different in Germany.
“warm” is the total sum that you have to pay to your landlord. When comparing apartments this is the interesting number.
A part of that is the so called “Nebenkosten”. This a separate category for certain things that are (eventually) paid to a third party like water, sewage, garbage collection, heating, gas and certain costs for the building as a whole e.g. the operation of an elevator. There is a fixed list of permissible items and your landlord can only bill actual costs. For some items like water or heating it is important to note that those are only estimated advance payments and the amount that you have to pay in the end depends on your actual use.
“kalt” (“cold”) refers to the price of the actual space that you rent.
At first glance it appears a bit complicated but the idea is that the costs are more transparent if you look a little closer. If there is any increase (or decrease) you know where the money went and whether this is permissible under your contract.
That depends on the particular apartment but what you describe is very common.
For example, my current apartment included all of the above, my last apartment none. Often you can buy appliances from the former tenant even if those aren’t part of the apartment.
It can be a bit annoying for people who move after a short time. If they plan to stay for a long time and directly or indirectly they would have to pay for those things anyway, many prefer to buy their own stuff.
One other reason for splitting things into “Nebenkosten” und “Kaltmiete” is that your basic rent (what you pay for the space) is not subject to “Mehrwertsteuer” (value added tax) while the “Nebenkosten” are. This is going to be interesting next year, since VAT rises on the 1st of January 2007.
Usually, when you move in, the previous tenant would have renovated the apartment, so buying wallpaper should only be the exception. However, this means that when you move out, you’ll have to renovate (which is a royal pain and there are differing opinions as to what exactly needs to be done, often leading to lawyers being involved).
Kitchen furniture / equipment are not necessarily included in the apartment. If you can buy it off the previous tenant that is called “Ablöse” in the ad.
What you should also consider is the fee for the realtor (Makler), which usually runs up to 2.5 times the monthly rent. However, in the larger cities, apartments are hard to get without some kind of realtor involved. In an ad they would call an apartment sans realtor “von privat”.
In addition, you’ll need to pay some kind of deposit (usually 1.5 times the monthly rent), which you’ll receive back once you’ve renovated the apartment (or not, hence the aforementioned lawyers).
B]Quasi**, just wanted to let you know that my husband will be along sometime before the weekend is over with a landlord’s perspective on your questions.
2.5 times the monthly rent has to be paid to the realtor? Insane. How do they justify such huge fees? Unless there’s some compensating factor that I’m not aware of.
Appliances are not necessarily included in an American apartment either, although most people probably assume it is. I was surprised to learn that our fridge wasn’t included, so much so that I hadn’t bothered to ask about it before signing the lease. I just assumed it was.
Just as I assumed that the pool and jacuzzi would be maintained in working order, but neither has worked in years. :mad:
Well, as Einmon said, you’ll have a hard time finding a place to rent without their help. Most owners hire a realtor to procure tenants. That way, they’re saving themselves most of the work at little or no cost for them - after all, it’s the new tenant that’s paying the fee.
But, thousands of Euros on top of the regular rent and the deposit? It doesn’t make sense. Being a realtor must be a splendid sinecure of a job if you can get it.
The flaw in the system is IMO that one party hires the realtor but the other party has to pay him - if landlords had to pay the realtor that they selected, realtors would compete by price rather than (as at present) mainly by reputation and by convenicence to the landlord.
Update - Quasi, Mr. Montdore, the absentee German landlord, is spending the weekend trying to put together an Ikea cabinet. As soon as he stops swearing at it, I’ll remind him to post an answer here.
Who says you have to buy wallpaper? Can’t you decorate it any way you like if you’re living there? Why is it a surprise to pay your own decorating costs?
In the U.S. you’d not only have to buy your own wallpaper, but get the landlord’s permission first, depending on the terms of the lease! This is because wallpaper is a highly individual choice, and it’s a headache to remove if a future tenant doesn’t like it.
No law that I am aware of in Illinois (for example) guarantees appliances in an apartment, although it would be hard to rent if it didn’t have appliances.
The big differences I see are the tax deductible bits mentioned above, and the fact that the tenant is required to redecorate when they move out. I personally think that’s nuts because if I were a landlord, I’d want control over how the place comes out. In the U.S., as a tenant, you usually don’t have to repaint when you leave unless there is major damage beyond normal wear and tear.
I like the fact that base rent is tax deductible though. That’s terrific.
There’s no rush. I retuned to Germany to live back in the 90’s, and I hope to retire there at some point.
Back in the last century, I had been away from Germany since age 11 and had no idea of the cost of renting an apartment there. I was a little surprised when fees began coming at me from everywhere, and I was drawing money out of my account so fast it was making my head spin.
I just want to get all my ducks in a row before moving over there again.
If one has never rented in the US as compared to renting in Germany, it’s quite a different and more involved process.
The fees you pay (commission and deposit) are huge…I moved into my place in October, before I even got the key I had already paid 2300 Euros for first month rent, realtor commission and deposit
