Replacing a wood stove with... what?

In My Humble Opinion
1

A friend of mine rents an old farmhouse heated by propane. Since the house is not well insulated, during cold snaps it is entirely possible to run through a significant amount of the propane in the tank in just 2-3 days, forcing an emergency refill of the tank (and sometimes even re-lighting of the pilot light) at a fairly hefty expense. In years gone by, he has made do with a kerosene heater on the ground floor (in the kitchen) as an extra heat source, but he is tired of dealing with kerosene and wants to do something else.

There is an old wood stove in the kitchen but it was damaged by the previous tenant. My friend has the landlord’s permission to replace it with something else, but the question is with what? He’s been hearing different things about wood vs. gas vs. pellet vs. coal, and is a little perplexed about how to choose. Anyone have experiences/insights they can share about what the better options would be?

For the record, the house is about 1000 sq. ft. total in terms of living space - a kitchen on the ground floor, living room/dining room/home office on second floor, bedroom in the attic.

2

In L.A., my gas bill was about $7/month. Now that I’m in northern Washington, my propane bill is significantly higher. I just had the tank refilled for nearly $120. I think it will last about three weeks.

Does the farmhouse have electricity? If so, then he might want to consider electric heaters. I’ve been told that the cost will be as much as, or greater than, propane. But at least it’s unlikely to run out.

My house has a wood stove set into one of the fireplaces. It was used for heat for many years. There are also electric wall heaters, but my friend disconnected them because they used so much electricity. He could have paid $1,200 to extend the chimney 2-1/2 feet and service the flue, but he decided it made more sense to pay $1,400 to install a propane heater.

My grandparents lived “off the grid” in southern Oregon. They had a very large propane tank to run their refrigerators and one of the stoves. They had a wood stove in the kitchen (white enamel finish; not the steroetypical black cast iron), and another wood stove in the dining room. They also had a fireplace. No problem heating the house that way. And there’s nothing like being able to reach behind you to take the old percolator off of the stove that’s keeping you warm!

You do not want to use a propane stove for heating. For one thing, it’s not what it’s designed for. For another thing, I’ve heard that they produce more carbon monoxide than a proper heater. The wood stoves my grandparents used had hot top surfaces, but the emissions went up the flue. A gas stove with the oven door open is different, in that many of the gasses will come out of the door. Using a kerosene heater sounds similarly dangerous. (When I was a wee lad we used one in our house in Japan. I didn’t die.)

The very first thing to be done would be to insulate the house. That’s the single best thing your friend can do. Insulating the house will result in lower fuel usage and save money in the long run. There are low-cost things that can be done for insulation. For example, get some iron-on plastic sheeting to “double pane” the windows. Hang heavier curtains. Keep doors to unused rooms closed. And, of course, more fiberglass insulation in the overheads will help to keep the heat from escaping through the roof.

As I said, insulating the house and using the propane heater is the best option. If he balks at the expense, ask him to compare the cost of insulation with the cost of buying propane, kerosene, and emergency fill-ups. But if he wants to fix the kitchen oven…

Hm. Wood stoves are not particularly efficient, and they cause a lot of pollution. On the other hand, I can tell you from my experiences at my grandparents’ house that they do work well. A gas or electric stove should not be used for heating. If he wants to use the stove for heating, I think a new wood stove might be a good option.

But better to insulate and use the propane heater, and add electric heaters if necessary.

3

They do make propane stoves specifically for heating. It’s just not a cook type stove.

I have one as my primary heating source (sun is the secondary). We replaced the wood stove with it and are very happy with it.

I would just get a bigger propane tank or put in a wood stove as a back up.

4

I heat my home primarily with wood, and it takes a lot of work to cut and split enough for the winter, far enough ahead of time so that it is well-seasoned before use. Yesterday I tripped on some brush and cut myself with my chainsaw, so there’s an element of danger, too. I never have to buy firewood since I have an infinite supply in my woods, but that may not be the case with your friend. If the wood is well-seasoned and allowed to burn hot instead of letting it smolder, the pollution is minimal. Efficiency depends on the type of stove, the kind of wood used and how dry the wood is.

Another option is an oil furnace. Fuel oil is efficient and inexpensive–much less expensive than gas and electricity.

5

How ironic, Live Better Electrically!. :smiley:

[sub]BTW: “Wood warms you twice.”[/sub]

6

The propane stove suggested to him is in fact intended for heating, as enipla said. In fact, the kerosene heater he has now is intended for indoor heating and does do reasonably well; it’s just that he really dislikes having to handle kerosene in the kitchen, and the heater gets very smoky when the fuel runs low overnight.

I know what you’re saying, but he IS renting. One of the downsides to a cheap rent is that the house is not in great condition, and my friend has already put a fair chunk of change into fixing things… he’s reluctant to do much more. To even think about electric heating the whole house would have to be re-wired, because it certainly is barely up to snuff right now. He does have plastic sheeting over the windows and it does help… but when it’s very windy, you can practically feel the heat being sucked out of the house, because the walls are thin and poorly insulated. During the first big snowstorm of this season, he went through nearly a third of a tank of propane in 2 days! :eek:

enipla, how big is the propane tank you have for your stove? Another consideration I guess is that the chimney for the stove is right next to the driveway, and the tank would be pretty much the first thing anyone sees when they visit the house.

My friend certainly wouldn’t be taking the time to chop his own wood, but would have to buy it from a supplier in the area. Given the storage needs for split wood I was wondering about the wood pellet option… but I’ve just seen that a wood pellet stove requires electricity to run, so maybe that’s not a great option as a backup after all.

7

I know that it’s painful to spend money on a rented house; but look at the money he’s paying for the gas. Out here a gallon of propane is $1.399 plus sales tax. A third of a tank for me would be about $60.

Okay, I know that that kind of usage is atypical. But suppose he does it for a month? $30/day (more or less, depending on how many gallons “1/3 tank” is, and the price of propane in the area) times 30 days is $900. It sounds as if it would be worth it to spend some money for a one-time insulation upgrade – even though he’s “losing” it to the landlord – in exchange for lower propane bills every month for as long as he lives in the house.

I misunderstood about the type of stove. I had assumed a cooking stove.

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500 gallons. One tank will not quite get me through the winter. But we have veeeerrrryy long winters. I sort of wish I had a larger one.

I don’t think that a pellet stove uses much electricity at all. Just for whatever it takes to run the thingamabob that feeds in the pelets.

9

How about just heating the room that he uses most? He could get one or two electric “radiator” type heaters. That plus plastic sheeting over the windows and an electric blanket should keep him nice and toasty. It may not look elegant, but I doubt he’s throwing a lot of huge parties in a 1,000sqft farmhouse.

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In my opinion the pellet stove is the way to go. A couple of hundred bucks for a ton for pellets, minimal ash, no wood to chop and split. When the one that I’ve got wears out I’ll definately buy another one.

11

We heat this house (2100 sq. ft.) with a wood heater. Wonder Wood is the best brand I’ve seen. You must have seasoned wood for it to work efficiently. I also have a source for all the free wood I need, plus chain saws, a truck and a hydraulic wood splitter. Heating with wood wouldn’t save so much money if I had to buy wood instead of cutting my own. Currently, a pickup truck load of split firewood is selling for about $60 in this area.

As has been mentioned, improved insulation will be the most cost efficient step to take. It should pay for itself in lower heating costs in just a couple of months.

I have never heard of a pellet stove before reading this thread. I take it that they burn wood pellets?

12

Depends on how long he intends to stay at this rental house. If its several years, do a little inuslating. plug up all cracks around windows and exterior doors. in fact. block off unused windows doors totally. a 4’x8’ sheet of 2" insulation board is only $8. a few sheets in the right areas would help alot and they can be temporary untill warmer weather.

If your freind is only gonna be there for a year or two i would go with a few fan driven electric heaters. Put em where you need em. turn them off when you don’t. They are great because you get instant gratification heat. Plus when your friend finds a new place he can take them with.

disclaimer. always be careful with elec. heaters. possible fire hazard if you do something dumb like put them too close to curtains furniture or bed clothes. use common sense and he should be ok.

13

I have an old house myself. I put clear inside insulation over those windows that are not double-paned; the kind you can tape to the moldings and blow with a hair dryer. It works quite well. I also put outside plastic insulation on a really old window that I have to replace next spring and with the two layers of insulation it keeps out a lot of the cold air.

When it starts getting cold I also put up heavy curtains, that I made, over the door entrances that lead to the room I spend all my time in the evenings. I use tension rods on the top and bottom. The furnace thermostat is in that room so the rest of the house gets really cold. My woodstove heats this room and the kitchen, which are adjoining, so even when it’s zero outside the furnace rarely goes on until an hour after I go to bed. The upstairs has a zone thermostat and I set that on 68. The heat rises so it does heat the upstairs a little.

I use an electric blanket in the winter and last winter I wore a knit hat to bed because it was 20 below, even down to 40 below, for a couple of months. I keep all upstairs doors closed so that when the furnace does go on the heat doesn’t disipate.

I don’t think there are any cheaper options than the existing heating system because anything else will require too much investment for a rental.

The wood is more of a pain than the kerosene but unfortunately the cheapest options make up for it in inconvenience.

Has he thought about moving his bed to the second floor in the winter?

Also, the portable electric heaters are okay but when I tried using one it was very expensive.

14

How about a gravity fed diesel (#1 heating oil) stove? If he has a wood stove he has the flue pipe and hole for venting. We use a 50,000 btu namebrand Perfection as our only heat source for a 900 sq ft house and its an overkill. We could have got by with the 35,000 btu one. Since its gravity fed no electricity is required. Just a fuel tank with a filter and copper tubing to run the fuel line. Costs about $600. We use about a hundred gallons a month.

15

John Carter of Mars

Yes, a pellet stove burns wood pellets that appear to be sawdust extruded through a die and I’m guessing that its held together with a glue of some sort but it may be compressed hard enough to hold the cylindrical shape on its own. I have seen stoves that burn whole corn or wheat but I’ve heard that they are not very efficient. It may be a way for the person in question in the OP to come up with a cheap heat source. A sack of whole corn shouldn’t cost more than a couple of bucks and if he can store some in bulk it should be cheaper than that. Just a thought.

16

My mother-in-law uses a pellet stove as her primary heating source (she has electric as a backup, but doesn’t usually use it). It works great - pumps out plenty of heat, has a thermostat so you can control it pretty easily, and it hardly takes any electricity at all to run. Plus it looks pretty when it’s running in the corner of the living room! The only maintenance required is some vaccuming every couple of weeks, and filling the hopper with pellets every few days when it’s cold out. (I don’t think that she can use anything other than pellets with her model, but they’re not expensive.)

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Risa, how much did she pay for the stove itself? I use wood, but was worried about the cost of the pellets. This year I paid $320.00 for three cords of wood, which almost lasts through the winter; plus I use about 1,000 gallons of oil, which I paid about 1200.00 for this year. With the stove, can she meet all her heating needs for $1500/year? Of course I live in Maine…

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Thanks for the info on the pellet stoves, Carl and Risha. It sounds like a good alternative for someone who’s not in a good situation for handling wood itself.

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Might be worth having another look at the wood stove and seeing how damaged it is. Unless they’ve taken the doors off or something stupid, there’s not that much to be damaged. The usual problem with them is that the firebox burns out, and they can often be replaced. Sometimes all that’s needed is to replace the firebricks inside the firebox which is neither terribly expensive nor difficult to do (ie, I can do it, so it can’t be difficult).

I heat my kitchen and living room, which is a pretty big area with a cast-iron cooking stove. It works really well as a heat source and in the winter I do most of my cooking on it as well. I don’t bother heating the rest of the house, but where I live temperatures hover around the -2 to 10 celcius in the winter, we’ll get snow a few times a year, but it usually doesn’t last the day.

If wood is readily/cheaply available, either fixing the exisiting stove or looking out for a second-hand replacement might be the cheapest way to go.

20

Literally a ton? Or “A couple of hundred bucks for a large amount of pellets”?

The propane guy came out on the 31st. I think he usually fills the tank to 90% (according to my friend). I’m down to 70% this morning, so that’s 5% (6.2 gal.)/day. I keep it pretty cool in here. I think the thermostat is set to about 62°.

There’s a lot of glass here. French windows and doors. They have the shrink-fit plastic sheeting, but I’ll need to look at other options. The curtains here have very little insulating properties. Some, but not much. For now I’ve hung a surplus poncho liner in front of the back windows, and a towel over the bamboo screen on the front door. I keep the bedroom doors closed. (Roomie is on holiday so there’s no need to heat his room, and I have two blankets so I’m quite toasty in bed. The big bedroom is for storage until I can turn it into a library, so no need to hit it either.) I know that my friend added overhead insulation when he bought the house. There’s new, thick carpet and padding, which is a good thing. I’ll have to find out how much insulation is in the overhead, and see about getting more. And I should look for some nice thick curtains.

But if a pellet stove is economical enough, I might have to think about getting one for my bedroom. I can leave the door open and it can heat the living room too. The outside wall is all window, plus a French door. Another half-exterior wall also has French windows. I’ll have to think about where a stove can go.

One surprising thing about this thread is the number of people who use “old fashioned” heating. Except for the kerosene heater I mentioned when I was very small in Japan, I’ve always had piped-in gas central heating. I’d always considered propane tanks to be “rustic”; let alone wood stoves and fireplaces. Nothing like moving to a different environment to learn new things!