The entire source material is not an adequate cite for its own contents, you say?
Want to think that over a little more and get back to us?
The absolute worst you could accuse that of is “Just Asking Questions”, and linking it to Reid’s statements seems questionable at best. That said, JAQ is pretty bad either way, so I’ll go halfway to admitting you’re right on this one.
I wish we could give these guys the benefit of the doubt. I wish we could say that they were veterans with a real cause, who were simply confused (because we can be pretty damn sure they were wrong). But, unfortunately, we can’t. We can’t not just because of conflict of interest and who the financers were, but also because of the statements held by the very people who apparently changed their minds later. The evidence available, not just from that NYT article but also from numerous other sources, is very damning. There’s nothing wrong with questioning a war hero. There’s a lot wrong with what happened here.
Lesson learned: don’t overestimate the intelligent of the average American. Even if they aren’t republicans.
I quoted his argument, but I happen to be interested in an answer to his question, too.
And if you want to play that game, how about you let elucidator answer questions that are asked of him? * Huh???*
Well, I read the transcript and didn’t see where he was asked to report hearsay. Why don’t you quote the section that does that? Should be simple… if it’s there.
No, it’s not.
If I tell you something is in the Bible, and you say “where?” and I cite “the Bible,” what would you say?
You need to provide a page number or similar locator with the source for it to be a proper citation. You can’t expect someone to read an entire large source material to find what you claim is in it.
Looks like only Iowa and New Mexico voted for Gore in 2000 and then voted for Bush in 2004. Whereas New Hampshire went the other way (from Wikipedia, sorry). Seems like in 47 states, the whole Swiftboating affair was of no matter.
So what is it in one state where being a lying theivin’ coward makes a good President, where in two others it was better to elect the Great Moron? I can think of no other three states as culturally diverse as these (technically, Quebec isn’t a “state”… yet). Assuming the Swiftboat affair was the sole cause of the 8 electorial votes switch, it still wouldn’t matter in 2004. Not like the 11 votes in Al Gore’s home state of Tennessee in 2000.
And that is *exactly *how one responds to someone who says the equivalent of “find it yourself” (more often heard in the form of “do your own research”). Well done.
**Magiver **is the one making the claim about what Kerry said, not me.
To repeat: Sheesh.
Sorry, given the limited nature and the context of my initial claim, I’m 100% correct on this. I didn’t say the Obama campaign made this claim explicitly. I said they “ran ads in battleground states based on this theme”. Which is completely correct.
My point here was not that Obama (or whoever ran the ads) was as bad as Reid. Only to contradict your claim that no one took Reid seriously. The fact that Obama was running ads clearly designed to push this notion forward, even without stating it explicitly, shows that Reid’s claim was taken seriously by many people.
He was invited to say what he had been told, by Winter Soldiers.
If you ran a text search for the word “hearsay”, no wonder you didn’t find it. :rolleyes:
Try his opening statement. Page 1.
:rolleyes:
But you are the one defending the use of an entire (long) transcript as a citation, not him.
Sheesh.
Wrong yet again. I did some of his work for him, by linking everything he could possibly need to back it up. His sole response was, well, not in the highest traditions of the Service and all that. As is yours, incidentally.
You said:
(Sigh). Kerry attended Winter Soldier. There, he heard first hand testimony by veterans regarding things they had personally witnessed. If Kerry relates any of that to anyone else, his statements fall under the technical definition of “hearsay”: the witness is relating things he may or may not believe, but did not personally witness.
Kerry was invited to speak before the Committee as a publicly acknowledged spokesperson for the Viet Nam Veterans Against The War. Hence, it is entirely correct and fair to say that he was invited to offer hearsay evidence. That “hearsay” is a term that often carries a negative connotation is not the point here. The point is that he did not claim to have witnessed all of these events. He did, however, clearly indicate that he believed them to be true.
And yes, his testimony was indeed viewed as dishonorable by many veterans. Other veterans regarded his testimony as courageous and honorable. And, of course they had a right to be heard. Whether or not they had a right to Make Shit Up is another question.
As to being asked to speak to Congressional representatives, that one is easy:
Gonna go way out on a limb here and state my opinion that he testified willingly, and was not subpoenaed nor coerced in any way. If you do not like the term “invited”, you are free to substitute your own.
Is there a Black Monday sale on roll eyes? Dude, you need to chill.
No, the assertion was that Kerry was asked to report hearsay, not that he actually did. We know he did. You need to cite one of the Congressmen asking him to do so.
There’s nothing wrong with admitting you made a mistake. Like I said earlier, there might be a cite out there that validates elucidator’s claim, but yours doesn’t:
We just need a cite that validates that. That’s all. I’m not claiming it isn’t true, I just am not aware that it is.
Guys, I think the OP specifically wanted to avoid the “Democrats did it too!” debate.
Did he also want a pony?
Besides, how can one discuss “fairness” without discussing both sides?
There are posters for whom that isn’t a debate topic, but an article of faith, fundamental to their views of all political discussions. And who can’t resist evangelizing us about it, unfortunately.
Yes, but we keep hoping you’ll change.
You need to see a copy of his letter inviting him to testify before you’ll believe it? As if he just showed up at the Capitol one day and asked to talk? And you think it’s *my *responsibility to provide that to you?
And you wonder why you’re getting so many rolleyes? You haven’t had enough of them.
Ooooh, snap! Boy, you got him good with that one!