Continuing the discussion from Surprises coming for voters for the Leopards-Eating-Faces Party:
I have no problem with madmonk expressing this perception, I just think he’s doing it in the wrong thread.
Also, there’s no shame in exploring the possibility of emigration and not carrying it out. Those who attack madmonk28 in a year or five for not emigrating or the opposite are being assholes in my view. It’s a big project and madmonk28 has explicitly said that he’s not sure he can pull it off.
Great for him. I’ve been wanting to emigrate for a few years, too. Planning it somewhat seriously. My main obstacle is the lack of a reliable income source once I go.
So if he can do it, great, and millions of others ought to too.
May I also say, we’ve all read about people who said “of Trump succeeds I give up, I’m moving to [wherever; Canada used to be a common choice]”. Well, good to see someone putting their money where their mouth is, as it were.
As for accelerationism, OTOH, that bit I’m not too fond of. Because it will hurt more those who can’t leave or insulate themselves. Sure, the system as is needs replacing, not merely adjusting. But do we really have no option other than a hard crash with severe pain for everyone?
Yes, MAGA’s opposition should give up trying to turn things around, emigrate, and leave the unfortunate who lack resources to fend for themselves. It’s the brave thing to do.
Well, there’s the debate: as I’ve repeatedly stated here, I’ve got a good, relatively stable job and a mortgage on a place I like living. At what point is it my “moral duty” to swallow the personal cost, basically upend my entire life, and put my political beliefs into action, especially before it affects me personally (acknowledging that it may well be too late by the time it does)?
It’s not an easy discussion to have or choice to make, at least not for me. So no “ought” for me, unless I’m just being totally blind.
I think this is my very first pit thread. I’m as surprised as you all are that it has taken that long.
I want to say that I find it odd that I was accused of being insensitive to the suffering of Americans in a thread explicitly created to celebrate the suffering of Americans.
Having said that, I don’t think I’m insensitive to Americans suffering, there’s just not much I can do about it.
My plan is to build a house in another country. I’ve picked the lot and the contractor. I also have to obtain some permits to purchase land as a foreigner; this has taken longer than I hoped, but is now moving. We own a house and a small cabin. Our plan is to sell the house next spring and move into the small cabin while the house is being built. My fear is that we will not be done before it is too late.
I don’t want to get in to the where right now. I’ve also got to figure out the dog, he’s very high stress and I’ve shipped a dog internationally before and it is rough on them. If he can’t go, I can’t go, it’s as simple as that. We also have a cat that I think can sleep in a carrier in the cabin.
We’re not rich, but because DOGE destroyed my life’s work, I need to sell the house anyway and I don’t see the point in staying in a country that hates me.
Good for @madmonk28. I sincerely hope it works out.
I’m not leaving this country. Ever.
I cannot think of one place on this earth that could meet my needs any better than the USA.
I’m sure there are very nice places. But I’d rather be here in my nice place.
You know it is bad allover the world. The earth, the whole earth is in crisis. Not just here.
But, as I said good luck in your endeavor.
I have a feeling you’re leaving out some of the sentiments most folks were arguing against in the other thread…
Well, that’s the issue: there are a whole lot of people who think that there’ll inevitably be a point where the country stops meeting your needs and starts being actively dangerous to your continued health and wellbeing. For some, it’s now.
Legit point.
Which are what? The op states my opinion that the US is close to collapse and I think that is probably a good thing. I lived in Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union, first under Yelstsin and then Putin and the state of the US reminds me of that time. A Certain segment of Russians were absolutely bewildered by the collapse of the USSR and were convinced it was a force of good. They could not wrap their heads around the idea that it wasn’t and were furious at those who did.
I see that same anger and hate in America, MAGA will never let go of their hate and they will do their best to punish those who they see as the enemy. I think the best thing for the world is for America to implode rather than explode. I don’t see any scenario where the country suddenly comes to its senses.
I’m gonna let the actual people involved answer your question; I didn’t even know what was going on in that thread until just now. I just did a skim because of the link.
By the same logic, my ancestors should have remained in their corrupt and impoverished countries and fought for change. After all, how did their leaving help their fellow countrymen?
When Trump and Putin(or whoever he pisses off next) start Tossing nuclear weapons. We’re all cooked.
No where will be safe.
When the big superstorm engulfs us all, there will be no safety, anywhere.
When asteroids start falling, where you gonna hide?
Sometimes you have to look danger in the face and deal with it.
If it’s ideology you’re having issue with, I can’t help you. That starts at home. Where ever homemay be. You’ll fight it wherever you go.
The nasty hate-filled people are everywhere. You’ll not escape that. Unless you buy a private island.
In some cultures, nasty, hate-filled people are isolated and shamed. In others, they are given weapons and authority. There is a difference.
Somehow that’s different, but no one has articulated why.
Continuing my comparison to the USSR, there was a period when Gorbachev was trying to reform it that some of the people in his inner circle realized that it wasn’t fixable, that the whole system was completely unsustainable and would never work. That’s the conclusion that I have reached about the US. Troops are being deployed in the capital and no one is even batting an eye, there should be thousands in the streets, mass work stoppages, and rage. There were dumb jokes about sandwiches.
We can’t isolate people for their opinion. Not here.
What kind of isolation do you mean?
You’re ridiculous, @madmonk28.
That crap goes on in every country.
I imagine sandwiches have been thrown at public folks as long as there have been sandwiches. Heck, they throw shoes in some countries.
Get over this obsession. Go. If your gonna go, go.
No one will block your path. From here. I’m sure there are barriers in loads of places. Just Go, for God’s sake.
The big difference, of course, is that those who do flee Trumpism (as opposed to just bloviating about it) will be people with elite skills and/or sufficient money to be accepted in other countries. The impoverished and oppressed will be stuck here.
Of course we can. We can’t put them in jail (yet) but we can stop listening to them, stop giving them our attention, stop engaging with them. I mean, theoretically. In reality, the stupider the opinion the bigger their engagement.
That why I asked what type of isolation.
You express an opinion outloud, you’ll get push back from someone, always.
You can still have your opinion.