The guy could have made it with his horrorcore rap. But this is probably the first time ever that someone commits a violent crime spree while his album hits #1. That was unbelievably brillant publicity, although he hates it. And look at who he targeted: The Insane Clown Posse, who many music lovers hate, and someone whom he thought was hitting on his wife. It has not stopped sales any. In fact, it sustained unprecendented high levels. I wonder what would have happened if he had targeted 'NSync? He might be selling 3 million a week.
What I meant from the subject was that he is turning into one of the best publicity stuntmen ever.
Considering he’s completely lacking in talent, I suppose he had to be good at something…
Resolved: Eminem is the Elvis of Rap.
[ul]
[li]Before Elvis: Rock and roll was a black genre. Parents were horrified that their children (including their daughters!) were drawn to black musicians.[/li]
Before Eminem: Rap was a black genre. Parents were horrified (although more secretly so than in the 50’s) that their children (including their daughters!) were drawn to black musicians.
[li]Black rock and rollers envied Elvis’s success, but couldn’t deny his talent.[/li]
Black rappers envy Eminem’s success, but can’t deny his rapping skills.
[li]Elvis was considered offensive by parents (all that pelvic shaking!), but at least he was white…[/li]
Eminem is considered offensive by parents (all those violent lyrics!), but at least he is white…
[li]Elvis generated controversy. Controversy generated publicity. Publicity generated sales.[/li]
Eminem generates controversy. Controversy generates publicity. Publicity generates sales.
[li]Parents finally got rid of Elvis by drafting him into the Army. (Thank heaven! Now our kids can listen to some nice safe Paul Anka and Frankie Avalon records!)[/li]
Parents finally got rid of Eminem by…Uh, oh, how are parents gonna get rid of this guy?
[/ul]
Racism lives, let’s face it.
I agree that the arrest is all about publicity. Getting arrested to get publicity is a long-running gimmick in the rap world. You must have a rap sheet to have “street cred.” Careers have been built on the highly cultivated “thug” image, and Eminem seems to have learned his marketing lessons well.
Who’s “Eminem”?
The Beatie Boys were rapping LONG before Eminem was potty-trained. And they were (are) better at it.
I think his point is that Eminem, like Elvis is the first white artist of his genre to have “made it” with the mainstream teeny-bopper type fans. I sincerly doubt whether Elvis was truly the first white rock musician, he’s just the one that most people remember.
QUOTE>>>>>>
Before Eminem: Rap was a black genre. Parents were horrified (although more secretly so than in the 50’s) that their
children (including their daughters!) were drawn to black musicians. >>>>>>>>
Two words: Vanilla Ice
And not to hijack, but doesn’t it seem pap artists (and I use the term loosely) are a lot quicker to sell-out than rock artists? I am defining selling out as doing soft drink commercials, lunch boxes, action figures etc…
I mean with Busta Rymes doing the Dew, MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice couldn’t wait to little action figures made of themselves just as soon as they hit it big…
Is that just my perception, or is there something to this
I’ve always seen it as being about publicity, not talent. If you can get the rap sheet, and the bad publicity, you’ll be a star. What killed vanilla ice? Finding out he was actually Robert van Winkle, from Dallas.
I think all of Rap in general sucks anyway, so this isn’t a thread I can comment on too much.
spooge wrote:
Vanilla Ice is the Pat Boone of rap.
[ul]
[li]Pat Boone became successful in an era when rock and roll was a black genre. He did white-bread knockoffs of rock and roll songs.[/li]
Vanilla Ice became successful in an era when rap was a black genre. His whole act was a white-bread knock-off of M C Hammer.
[li]Pat Boone never had credibility with rock musicians.[/li]
Vanilla Ice never had credibility with rap artists.
[li]Pat Boone’s popularity faded when Elvis came on the scene.[/li]
Vanilla Ice barely lasted 15 minutes.
[/ul]
I’m not sure where The Beastie Boys fit into this framework. They are almost a novelty act. (Albeit a very entertaining one…) I don’t think they have a lot of credibility with “serious” rappers. Hmmm… Maybe they are the Big Bopper of rap.
Well, now, theeeere’s an oxymoron.
M&M?
Peace,
mangeorge
Eminem is considered offensive by his OWN parents.
Yeah. Isn’t his mother suing him for slander? Apparently,
the terms he uses to describe her are really offensive.
Whether true or not, I have no idea.
Hey, y’all are preaching to the choir, here. I am no fan of rap, but I do recognize the parallels between Eminem and Elvis. And I also recognize that as a rapper, Eminem is pretty skillful.
capacitor, I think you’ll find SDMB rap debate to be lacking. As a whole, the SDMB community knows the urban music scene like goldfish know velvet.
I like Eminem but I doubt he’ll come close to the longevity of Elvis. He’s not really groundbreaking either. As others have said, the history of white rap goes back way before the current crop. Hell, it goes back to Blondie. Caucasians have been rapping almost as long as African-Americans. Just not as much and genrally, not as well.
The BB are not very good rappers at all. The rythyms they use are very simplistic and unchanging throughout the length of the song. Every measure has the same pattern as the next. And the next.
They are good at playing catchy hooks in the background like the flute in “Sure Shot”, the stomp of “Watcha Want” or even the cheezy vocals of “Intergalactic Planetary”. They have successfully recalled the Atari 2600 era that Gen-Xers love. They use pop-culture references. Their retro videos are cool as shit. The BB are better than they used to be (“Brass Monkey” anyone?), but they’re not skilled rappers.
Eminem may be a flash in the pan and he his criminal activities may be trite, but the man can rap.
Rap artists wear materialism like a badge of honor (bling, bling*). So I don’t think their fans fault them if they do commercials. Rap artists are enti-extablishment in a way different than bands like Pearl Jam. “Selling out” for a rap star is not exploiting capitalism by doing commercials, etc. Rather, a rap star who let himself become the tool of a white studio for loads of money would be considered selling out.
I don’t think that there are lot of rap stars who sell out. Most come out of independent black labels and are very supportive of their fellow rap artists (by doing crossover songs, etc.). I also think there are some rap artists who can legitimately be considered talented.
However, I don’t consider Eminem one of them. I think he’s found his gimmick (offensive lyrics) and will ride the coattails of Dr. Dre for the rest of his career.
*“bling bling” is catchphrase for the recent platinum jewlery fad in the hip hop world.
**
From what I heard, he said that his mom was a pill-popper and asserted that she liked to sue people. So she sued him. I wonder if she sees the irony in that.
Mangeorge:
Eminem’s real initials are M.M., that’s how he got the name ‘Eminem’. His real name is “Mike Masterson”.
alphagene- nicely said. you pretty much summed up my POV (esp. w/r/t the beastie boys- i love em, but they’re not the bees’ knees)
i must say that eminem is one of the more talented rhymers around today. say what you want about his offensiveness or selling out, but the man can rhyme entire ssentences with some rather complicated meters.
no lie, he’s a lot like tom lehrer. intelligent witty pop songs. don’t like him if you don’t wanna, but don’t badmouth him if you’re not gonna listen.
This Eminem is beyond a rebel. He disses just about everything sacred. Satan (the Devil, not the poster) has to look at him and said, “Damn!” Marshall Mathers has developed a style that very few can touch and get away with it. Hell, he even killed Dr. Dre, twice in his new CD. How many artists would think that, much less sing a song about it. This is not a sell-out witebread. He is more hardcore than any other artist in existence. Also, he makes the best anti-drug songs ever. There is no excuse to take drugs after listening to him.