Resolved: Not one Federal dime should go to rebuild Jefferson Davis's house

[Sailboat]

@aruvqan

Everything is viewpoint.

…

Jefferson Davis, and all the others in the south were acting according to the mores of the time.

At the time, it was widely recognized that chattel slavery was wrong. At the time, it had been eliminated in other nations that follow the traditions of Western liberal thought, in some cases a generation or more earlier. In fact, it was the fear that slavery would be ended because it was unpopular that provoked the secession movement. They knew damn well it was wrong. Even their own words from the time sound defensive.

Here’s one acid test: the golden rule. Would Jeffereson Davis have appreciated being enslaved?

These people did what they knew in their hearts to be cruel and unfair because they gained from it. That’s as good a working definition of “evil” as we have.

Sailboat

[Damuri_Ajashi]

There is still a Jefferson Davis Freeway right outside Washington D.C.

@Sailboat

At the time, it was widely recognized that chattel slavery was wrong. At the time, it had been eliminated in other nations that follow the traditions of Western liberal thought, in some cases a generation or more earlier. In fact, it was the fear that slavery would be ended because it was unpopular that provoked the secession movement. They knew damn well it was wrong. Even their own words from the time sound defensive.

Here’s one acid test: the golden rule. Would Jeffereson Davis have appreciated being enslaved?

These people did what they knew in their hearts to be cruel and unfair because they gained from it. That’s as good a working definition of “evil” as we have.

Sailboat

[Valteron]

@BobLibDem

This is a legitimate piece of American history and I don’t have any problem with spending tax monies to preserve it. Similarly, I think it would be entirely appropriate for the German government to preserve Auschwitz as an historical site.

You do realize that Auschwitz is in Poland, not Germany?

[Papermache_Prince]

Of course he realizes this. Five days ago BobLibDem thanked Lissa for her correction.

[Contrapuntal]

@Sailboat

Here’s one acid test: the golden rule. Would Jeffereson Davis have appreciated being enslaved?

These people did what they knew in their hearts to be cruel and unfair because they gained from it. That’s as good a working definition of “evil” as we have.

Sailboat

As did Washington, Jefferson, et.al. Also evil?

[saoirse]

@Contrapuntal

As did Washington, Jefferson, et.al. Also evil?

There is a difference between participating in a corrupt institution and starting an war to preserve it.

[LonesomePolecat]

@Contrapuntal

If he was not a traitor under the law, in what way was he a traitor? And no, I don’t know what you mean. It can and has been argued that secession was a constitutional right.

O.J. Simpson was not convicted of murder. Should we therefore assume he is not a murderer?

I consider Jane Fonda a traitor, but she was never placed on trial.

Many of the Japanese scientists who conducted medical and biological warfare experiments on civilians and prisoners of war at Unit 731 were never tried and convicted of crimes against humanity. Should I assume that their experiments weren’t crimes against humanity by any reasonable definition of the term?

[Contrapuntal]

@David Simmons

Well, the “compact” was among the original 13 colonies.

I have not referrred to a compact, and my links are not about a compact, so I do not know why you addressed this to me.

@saoirse

There is a difference between participating in a corrupt institution and starting an war to preserve it.

Undoubtedly. However, that has nothing to do with **Sailboat’s ** definition. Read it again.

@Lonesome Polecat

O.J. Simpson was not convicted of murder. Should we therefore assume he is not a murderer?

He was tried and acquitted. I think he is probably guilty, but I got to see the trial live. If he had never gone to trial would you think he was amurderer? Davis was charged with treason and jailed for two years before the charges were dropped. If there were a case to be made, there was ample oportunity.

I consider Jane Fonda a traitor, but she was never placed on trial.

You are of course free to do so, but the fact that she was not charged with treason by a government that was, shall we say, not her biggest fan weakens your argument.

Many of the Japanese scientists who conducted medical and biological warfare experiments on civilians and prisoners of war at Unit 731 were never tried and convicted of crimes against humanity. Should I assume that their experiments weren’t crimes against humanity by any reasonable definition of the term?

I’m not sure how on point this is. Were they charged with crimes against humanity? If not, why not? I am unfamiliar with the story.

Davis was charged, held without trial for two years, and released.

[David_Simmons]

@Contrapuntal

I have not referrred to a compact, and my links are not about a compact, so I do not know why you addressed this to me.

Iwas responding to this statement:

@contrapunatal

The argument can be made that the states had the right to secede. Accordingly, Davis was a traitor by none of your definitions. That yours is a majority opinion by no means makes it the truth.

I don’t think there is any valid atgument for a right to secede. I don’t believe that any of the Framers thought for a moment that they were designing a United States from which any state could withdraw at any time.

From your second link.

The subjugation of the Southern States, and their acceptance of the terms dictated by the North, may, if the reader please, be considered as having shifted the Federal Government from the basis of compact to that of conquest; and thereby extinguished every claim to the right of secession for the future.

Hogwash. The basis of the “right to secession” argument is commonly that the Constitution is merely an agreement that can be abrogated at any time by any state by its own declaration that it has done so.

[Miller]

@aruvqan

You know, if at some point in the future uberfemms get into power, you might be reviled as a member of the phallocracy, enslaving females for your own pleasure as servants and baby factories. You traitorous penis weilding whoremonger.

Yeah, and if the Klan ever seizes the reins of government, most of the people in this thread will swing for being race traitors. What’s your point?

[saoirse]

Originally Posted by aruvqan
You know, if at some point in the future uberfemms get into power, you might be reviled as a member of the phallocracy, enslaving females for your own pleasure as servants and baby factories. You traitorous penis weilding whoremonger.

But if I don’t lead an armed rebellion against our new overladies, with the object of creating a separate republic where women given no rights at all (unless they carry papers to prove otherwise) then I will not be equivalent to Jefferson Davis.