Resolved: "Racist!" is The White Man's "Nigger!"

Great Debates
1

Reflecting on the Michael Richards debacle: for those who have recently asserted that there is no racial epithet the equivalent to “nigger” among the select few slurs blacks fling at white people – and off the top of my head cracker, honky, peckerwood, ofay and white boy are essentially the only contenders rounding out the top five (mmmaybe “massa”, “pig”, “devil” and “Mr. Charlie” if I drew from antebellum times, the Vietnam era slang and the invectives of the Nation of Islam) – it occurs to me the most damning one and the only one that draws any blood currently has been right under our collective noses all along.

“Racist.”

This is perhaps the ONLY racial insult that draws any anger, dismay, hurt and fear among whites. In my opinion, it’s the modern equivalent of “nigger” to a white person, the only insult that preys on your worst fears and casts doubt about how you behave and how you’re seen by others. Much as “nigger” damages the psyche of blacks in a unique and fundamental way, the accusatory insult of racist often makes whites just as deeply uneasy, injured and angry.

This is the only term that Hippy Hollow (quoting another poster) said was the “worst thing you can call a white person,” a sentiment echoed by other Dopers responding to him. (Sorry. Can’t remember the thread. Somebody post a link.)

For those of you who doubt the power of a word like nigger, think on how you would feed if you were called a racist.

Discuss.

2

I think you’re onto something here.

As a white guy, “cracker”, “honkey” and suchlike just don’t have any meaning to me. The only thing that could sting about being called a “cracker” is if by using that term the person was implicitly calling me a racist.

3

Doesn’t work for me. I’m confortable with my own mindset wrt racial relations, and I’m not a racist. If someone calls me a racist, my reaction is :rolleyes: , not fear or anger, or anything else.

I think for a white person to get a sense of what it’s like for black person to be called a “nigger”, he would have to wander into a neighborhood that was almost exclusively black, and have a few hostile acting men taunt him. Then, almost anything he was called, even just “whiteboy”, would be pretty darn scary.

4

I believe that it is a terrible insult. Why wouldn’t it be? If “nigger” is the worst thing that a white person can call a black person, surely it is in no small part due to the abysmally racist behavior that whites have perpetrated against blacks throughout our history.

I have never been as upset in public as I when I was called a racist at work, and then not allowed to defend myself against the charges; charges which came from black people I had hired in opposition to the wishes of many of the other employees (there were no black employess prior to my employment.) With one word I was cast into a pot with the worst of humanity; why would that not be a grave offense?

5

So what happens if you call a non-white person a racist?

6

rjung. Oftentimes, and to quote John Mace: :rolleyes:

7

[QUOTE=rjung]
So what happens if you call a non-white person a racist?
[/QUOTE]
You’ll probably get an argument. :smiley:

However, the context of the discussion is not whether “racist” can only be applied to one group of people, but whether the use of the word when directed against whites tends to have the emotional impact of using “nigger” against blacks.

While I can see John Mace’s point, I suspect that in terms of simple, raw, emotional reaction by the majority of whites in early 21st century U.S., Askia is correct.

8

Sorry, I whole-heartedly disagree with the premise of your OP, Askia. In fact, I don’t think it’s possible for me to disagree with you more. We are like so 180 degrees on this.

To call someone racist is to label them based on their beliefs and behavior. The term is not a pejorative as it describes to a real life phenomenon. “Racist” is no more an insult than any other label that we use. I call someone overweight if their BMI is over a certain amount. I call someone a pedophile if they lust after prepubescent youth. I call someone racist if they have racial prejudices. My intent is not to insult, but to convey meaning using the English language.

“Nigger” is not anything except a name intended to debase someone. It fulfills no purpose except to communicate insult. There are no actual niggers.

But racist people do exist.

Just because someone objects to being called racist, does not mean it is on par with a slur. I mean, plenty of people walking around object to being called overweight, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are overweight. If someone expresses disdain towards black people and I say that they are being racist, I’m not trading their insult with one of my own. I’m simply describing them with the appropriate adjective.

9

[QUOTE=Askia]
Reflecting on the Michael Richards debacle: for those who have recently asserted that there is no racial epithet the equivalent to “nigger” among the select few slurs blacks fling at white people – and off the top of my head cracker, honky, peckerwood, ofay and white boy are essentially the only contenders rounding out the top five (mmmaybe “massa”, “pig”, “devil” and “Mr. Charlie” if I drew from antebellum times, the Vietnam era slang and the invectives of the Nation of Islam) – it occurs to me the most damning one and the only one that draws any blood currently has been right under our collective noses all along.

“Racist.”

This is perhaps the ONLY racial insult that draws any anger, dismay, hurt and fear among whites. In my opinion, it’s the modern equivalent of “nigger” to a white person, the only insult that preys on your worst fears and casts doubt about how you behave and how you’re seen by others. Much as “nigger” damages the psyche of blacks in a unique and fundamental way, the accusatory insult of racist often makes whites just as deeply uneasy, injured and angry.

This is the only term that Hippy Hollow (quoting another poster) said was the “worst thing you can call a white person,” a sentiment echoed by other Dopers responding to him. (Sorry. Can’t remember the thread. Somebody post a link.)

For those of you who doubt the power of a word like nigger, think on how you would feed if you were called a racist.

Discuss.
[/QUOTE]
Put simply, you’re wrong. As someone who inhabits the netherworld between the White and Black races, I can tell you there is no equivalence between the words “nigger” and “racist”. Being called a racist may be hurtful to the recipient, especially if the assertion is incorrect, but it in no way denigrates him or her. Also, in general, a White person may or may not be considered a racist, depending on the opinions they hold and express on racial matters. A Black person, by dint of being born Black, is usually determined to be a nigger (by those who would use and apply such terms) regardless of opinions they hold or express, or acts they perform…and anyway, Black people can be racists too, and considered such. Whites can never be niggers.

Your comparison is spurious.

10

Yeah, we honkey mo-fo’s pretty much don’t allow people too much heat for racial epithets. I mean really, can you call us anything truly and unjustly derogatory considering the large scale evils we’ve perped on the world? Not really. Pretty much all of us are descended from civilizations owning well-documented atrocities, and yet, being human, we need to look to something for a heritage/cultural foundation. And, being White folks (hipocrytes by nature), we conveniently accept some parts of that heritage (the good and shiny stuff) and not the rest. Guy may be English and bloody proud of the empire, but he didn’t have anything personally to do with handing out smallpox blankets to The Red Man. The good & bad are tied to one another–you can’t sport a swastika armband in celebration of strength through unity without accepting the fact that the same success came at a hell of a price to someone else.

So yes, if you please, try not to shatter our illusions of well-intentioned heritage, lest we remind you of what you once were to many of us, and still are, by rights, to some.

11

[QUOTE=you with the face]
Sorry, I whole-heartedly disagree with the premise of your OP, Askia.
[/quote]
What else is new? :smiley:

If you use “racist” in a non-perjorative, non-accusatory, clinically descriptive way devoid on emotion, I suppose that’s true. Use descriptively and invectively racist in a phrase like “You fucking racist cracker” and it has much more bite.

Except, during the 18th and 19th centuries it was also a label for American blacks, slave and free, nigger and similar appelations and were often NOT seen particularly perjorative. They were labels applied to their race, as well as their beliefs and behavior – hence terms like “nigger” and “darky lies.”

Speaking dispassionately, niggers do exist. They’re just not exclusively of African descent, black or male.

I agree, probably not YOU. You tend to keep your cool even under the most arduous debates and arguments. But isn’t possible some people are more creative with their invectives and can twist “racist” to be more of an insult? Might it not be perceived as a slur? Overweight isn’t insult per se, but “overweight bastard” is.

12

“Blacks need to stop being angry, and Whites need to stop being sorry.”

13

[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia]
Put simply, you’re wrong. As someone who inhabits the netherworld between the White and Black races, I can tell you there is no equivalence between the words “nigger” and “racist”. Being called a racist may be hurtful to the recipient, especially if the assertion is incorrect, but it in no way denigrates him or her. Also, in general, a White person may or may not be considered a racist, depending on the opinions they hold and express on racial matters. A Black person, by dint of being born Black, is usually determined to be a nigger (by those who would use and apply such terms) regardless of opinions they hold or express, or acts they perform…and anyway, Black people can be racists too, and considered such. Whites can never be niggers.

Your comparison is spurious.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe, if I ever said it was precisely equivalent. But I didn’t type that. I just said, “Nigger is the worst thing you can call someone black. Racist is the worst thing you can call someone white. The emotional hurt many whites feel by the accusation and insult of being called racist is similar to what blacks feel being called *nigger.” *

14

[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya]
“Blacks need to stop being angry, and Whites need to stop being sorry.”
[/QUOTE]
Oh, kiss my big black — Oops. Hmmm. Maybe
you have a point.

15

While I agree that being labeled, or even being threatened with the label, ‘racist’ is something most right-thinking people tend to shudder at, ultimately where I think the comparison breaks down, as others have pointed out, is that “nigger” is an insult that is intended by the user to denigrate a person’s being or essence. Even if you use “racist” as an insult, rather than as a detached clinical diagnosis, you’re still only maligning a person’s thoughts/beliefs/words/actions. If you sling the word “racist” at me as an insult, my response can be “No, I’m not.” Or at least, “There are lots of people more deserving of that epithet than I am.” Or even, “Hey, I’m working on it – I hope to get better.” But if I hurl the word “nigger” at you, I’m asserting my own power and privilege and your inborn and unalterable inferiority based on our respective skin colors. What on earth does one say in response to that?

16

[QUOTE=John Mace]

I think for a white person to get a sense of what it’s like for black person to be called a “nigger”, he would have to wander into a neighborhood that was almost exclusively black, and have a few hostile acting men taunt him. Then, almost anything he was called, even just “whiteboy”, would be pretty darn scary.
[/QUOTE]

Uh, that pretty much applies to just about anyone, does it not? If I enter a neighborhood populated by people hostile towards me and they started calling me names it’s going to be pretty darn scary no matter what color their skin is.

I might be lambasted for this but I think we need to get over the word nigger. Given the use of the word in popular culture I’m not so sure it has the same power over younger generations as it did those in older generations.

Then again what’s rational? I might jokingly call a friend an asshole or a bastard but I’d never call them a cunt or a nigger even in jest. So what do I know?

Marc

17

[QUOTE=Aholibah]
While I agree that being labeled, or even being threatened with the label, ‘racist’ is something most right-thinking people tend to shudder at, ultimately where I think the comparison breaks down, as others have pointed out, is that “nigger” is an insult that is intended by the user to denigrate a person’s being or essence. Even if you use “racist” as an insult, rather than as a detached clinical diagnosis, you’re still only maligning a person’s thoughts/beliefs/words/actions. If you sling the word “racist” at me as an insult, my response can be “No, I’m not.” Or at least, “There are lots of people more deserving of that epithet than I am.” Or even, “Hey, I’m working on it – I hope to get better.” But if I hurl the word “nigger” at you, I’m asserting my own power and privilege and your inborn and unalterable inferiority based on our respective skin colors. What on earth does one say in response to that?
[/QUOTE]
Just because nigger has more baggage, history and deeper negative connotations doesn’t mean racist doesn’t have an edge when wielded properly. I’m not saying they are equivalent, just similar in how they can cut, and in some cases cut deep. I suppose I could be comparing the sword of nigger to the butterfly knife of racist, and it’s a fairly uneven comparison when they are pitted against each other, but let’s not pretend that racist is simply a dry, descriptive , bloodless and emotionally impotent term that can’t do any damage, either. Just to be openly accused of being racist is a lot like being openly accused of being a rapist: you tend to be judged as guilty until later proven innocent in the court of public opinion simply by the accusation.

18

[QUOTE=Askia]
Oh, kiss my big black — Oops. Hmmm. Maybe
you have a point.
[/QUOTE]

Not me, brother–can I call you brother?–I think it was some darkie who said that. But she was probably part White anyway.

19

[QUOTE=MGibson]
[snip]… I might be lambasted for this… [snip]
[/QUOTE]
Lambaste! Lambaste!

20

[QUOTE=Aholibah]
Even if you use “racist” as an insult, rather than as a detached clinical diagnosis, you’re still only maligning a person’s thoughts/beliefs/words/actions.

[/quote]

Some of us take it very seriously when you impugn our thoughts and beliefs. Actually I take that a lot more seriously then assaults upon my ethnic or racial makeup.

How about “You’re an idiot”? Just so we’re clear, everyone, I’m not calling Aholibah an idiot. It sounds like a reasonable response to me.
Marc