This might be considered the companion thread to the other active discussion. I had hoped someone would ask this question in that thread, but as yet no one has.
I for one believe there is Something beyond us and think I have enough evidence to satisfy myself, but am more than willing to admit that this might be the result of psychosis. Now, I’m very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind? If I have children will they be taken from me so that I can not affect their thinking? I’m hoping for some sincere and honest answers here.
How about…engage in it. Enjoy it. Accept it for what it is. Feel free. Put it in proper perspective. Skiing is irrational. Playing cards for money is irrational. Reading superhero comic books is irrational. Playing D&D is irrational.
But…also fun.
So long as “personal tastes” don’t interfere with “real life,” they don’t have to be a problem.
Respect others. Celebrate diversity. Don’t try to get laws passed compelling anyone else to worship your choice of divinity. Don’t get obsessive about the “end times.” Rejoice in God the way Johann Sebastian Bach or Michelangelo did, or even the way C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton did.
Have fun! Make it into a Good Thing. If there are parts of your holy scriptures you don’t agree with…ignore those parts. Many, many Christians have no grief whatever with gays and lesbians, and are perfectly willing to accept such persons as friends and neighbors.
As Humpty Dumpty said: Who is to be the master? That’s all. If religion starts becoming a personal burden to you…change your religion!
Maximize personal freedom, emphasize personal responsibility…
I won’t get into it with you, but anyone who says, “So long as “personal tastes” don’t interfere with “real life,” they don’t have to be a problem.” is not someone I can easily respect. And that’s only the bare beginnings of what’s wrong with that. You do not preach moderation, but rank stupidity and utter madness in equal measure.
That’s right. You don’t burn atheists at the stake for beaing heathen witches, that’s stupid…you burn them for being godless monsters.
Heathenism would imply beliefs and witchcraft would imply consorting with the devil.
And some like to zealously evangelize more so than their perceived opposition.
That aside, I thank Trinopus for at least trying to answer my questions although the issue of my influence upon my children has gone unaddressed.
For the rest of you, please help me find some respect for your opinions on this matter (and others.) Please tell me and the rest of the Dope what your real thoughts are. If you can or will not, I can only assume you have never thought the issue through to its conclusion, are ashamed of your thoughts or else enjoy the mental masturbation ping pong game of “Yes, they are. No, they aren’t.” above all else.
To answer Analog directly, I qualify as one of the heathens so I’m not likely to recommend a pyre.
Certain forms of insanity or more properly cognitive imparement can be diagnosed as belief in things that are not valid in observable reality.
for example:
If one person believes that rocks can talk - they are insane
If 25 people believe that rocks can talk - they are a wacky little cult
If 250,000 people belive that rocks can talk they are an obscure religion
If 250,000.000 people believe that rocks can talk, then they will have politicians and marketing agencies dancing to their faith/religion.
I honestly don’t see this. I believe that personal tastes are irrational in nature – and that this doesn’t matter. Some personal tastes, however, are harmful – as when the appreciation of a drink now and then becomes alcoholism. At that point, it ceases being moderation and starts being a problem.
Religion is fine, so long as it isn’t a problem. When it turns to such things as holy inquisitions, it is a problem. When it’s a bunch of people gathering in a church to sing praises to their idea of the divine…where’s the problem?
I believe I am preaching moderation; if I am failing, I would certainly not object to being enlightened. I don’t crave your respect, save only to the degree that you are clear in your rebuttal, so that I have a chance of learning from my errors. Arrant dismissal is not educational.
Der Trihs: giant ant? Huh?
I’m kinda new here, and I may not be getting some of the jargon.
Trinopus
(Many years ago, I actually ran a “giant ant” D&D campaign…)
Very true. I am trying not to be that kind of atheist.
Actually, I’ve never much minded evangelists, of the genteel variety, anyway. People who come to my door on a Saturday to persuade me to follow their faith: seems pretty harmless. I got a free copy of the Book of Mormon that way…
Only a tiny minority are offensive; I hope the same is true of atheists.
Trinopus, thank you for your opinion. So far you are the only one willing to share. I’m really hoping others will be willing to step up and be honest rather than trying to make jokes and snide comments.
There will be others! (“If you build it, they will come.” It’s true of civilized discourse and of baseball too…)
I’ve always been fond of the “Grand Hotel” model of society and culture. Our culture’s mansion has many rooms… There will be a tendency toward segregation, as birds of a feather flock together, but we still live under the same overall shelter. I live right next door to a church. They ring their bells…softly! They don’t peal them out in festive clangor…except at Christmas and Easter. For my part, I can cope with the very loud (almost painful) sounds of joy twice a year.
Rodney King was mocked for his naive plaint, but he was right: “Can’t we all just get along?”
FWIW, I don’t think religious belief is “insane.” I compare it to other personal preferences, in fashion, cuisine, drama, etc. You and I might likely disagree on which movie to see, which radio station to listen to, or where to go for dinner, but neither of us would call the other “insane” for having different tastes. Tastes are, perhaps, “irrational.” I can’t defend them logically; they’re just how I feel. If someone has a personal sense that the universe is founded upon animate principles – that there are gods, spirits, devils, angels, or that there is one unifying god – that is not, intrinsically, of any harm to me, and nor is my dissent from that personal sense any intrinsic harm or threat to the believer.
(I do have logical grounds and formal reasoning behind some of my religious ideas, but they don’t belong in this thread. And, in an case, some people would disagree with my premises, and so nothing can really be logically conclusive!)
Legally enforced atheism would be one of those “cures” which is vastly worse than the “disease!”
The absence of a legally-constituted “state religion” is not only of benefit to the atheists, but to everyone practicing a minority religion. The secular state is, it is true, of comfort to the atheist…but in America, it is also of comfort to the Jew, the Mormon, the Wiccan, the Buddhist, the Hindu, the followers of various classical pantheons (I know a couple of Thor worshippers and a small group of Minerva worshippers) and others. Also to the smaller sects of Christianity: if there were an official state religion, would it leave room for Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, The Way Ministry, etc.?
At least some atheists answer ‘no!’ to what you cited!