Resolved: The first $2000 of Social Security tax should be eliminated.

Resolved: The first $2000 of Social Security tax should be eliminated.

Someone earning $20,000 per year pays about $1500 in payroll taxes, and another $1500 is paid by his employer. (If the person is self-employed he pays the entire $3000.) If I am elected this total tax bill will be reduced by $2000. (Whether the savings come from employee or employer portions can be ignored for now; it is a detail of secondary importance.)

My proposal will have several advantages:
[ul]
[li] It will represent, in effect, a $1 per hour wage hike for everyone. A wage hike that will not be paid by the employer; instead it will encourage hiring.[/li][li] It’s a step in the direction of Basic Income, an idea which is gathering support. Yes, it’s targeted at workers specifically rather than everyone; but workers have costs that the unemployed do not have: commuting costs, childcare, etc. It is a step toward Basic Income that incentivizes work rather than sloth.[/li][li] It is extremely simple. Some steps toward income equality require new bureaucracies, fraud preventions, etc. My idea will require only a trivial change to payroll software, and perhaps a new line on Form 1040.[/li][li] The programs funded by payroll taxes, in particular Social Security, would function exactly as before. Individuals would be credited with the (up to) $2000 not paid. The shortfall in the SocSec Trust Fund would be made up from other government revenue (see below).[/li][/ul]

This idea is so simple, so useful, and so correct that I’m astounded only I am proposing it. (I guess other politicians cannot take time away from their busy schedule of deciding whether our AR-15s need 15-bullet magazines, or if 14 bullets are enough.)

The lost funding will have to come form somewhere, right? Yes.

Unlike most of the people who call themselves Fiscal Conservatives™, I am actually a fiscal conservative. When all my programs {A,B,C,…} are passed, the fiscal effect ΔA + ΔB + ΔC + ΔD + … will NOT increase the deficit. Just the opposite, in fact; I want ΔA + ΔB + ΔC + ΔD < 0 to reduce the deficit and reverse the huge debt accumulation due to the corrupt policies of the so-called “Fiscal Conservatives™.”

For example, one might imagine two expensive programs (A,B) and two tax hikes (C,D), which would balance out: ΔA + ΔB + ΔC + ΔD = 0. However, experience has shown that simpler arithmetic is needed (ΔA + ΔB = 0), to conform with a sophomoric understanding of “revenue neutrality.” Thus, I mention a large carbon tax, perhaps in a ballpark to work out to $1 per gallon of gasoline. This should be at least enough to match the SocSec shortfall. But please start a new thread to debate carbon tax; this is an independent matter mentioned here only to expunge whingeings about “revenue neutrality.”

Would a carbon tax eat up the $2000 SocSec savings of workers with very long commutes, very inefficient vehicles, or with high home-heating needs? Sure! But that’s the very purpose of a carbon tax: to create a strong disincentive against the behaviors that threaten to ruin our habitat, to account for the otherwise-unafforded destruction of our commons.

So. Who will join me in a call to eliminate the first $2000 of SocSec tax? This is a good simple idea, which should gain traction. Let’s not let the Rs jump on the idea while the Ds are preoccupied with irrelevant trivia.

(A zombie thread was recently revived, stimulating this OP.)

I am saddened when I witness this level of thinking. I am as cynical as most, but I try to spend my cynicism wisely, not on preposterous gibberish.

Yes. Note that Buffet’s paying at a lower rate than his secretary doesn’t have anything to do with his massive unrealized gains. He pays a lower rate than his secretary on his salary and realized gains. Right-wingers like to shriek and whine and pretend disbelief when presented with this uncomfortable fact, but it is simple truth. The $2000 rebate I propose will help address this iniquity.

Well, you’ve got my vote - I can get behind both sides of that platform.

Now you just need to stand on the right street corners to get some lobbyists to give you ~$2M (or $10M if you’re aiming for Senator, or ~$500M for President) and we’ll be good to go!

I will vote for you too but only if you also eliminate the income cap on SS taxes.

How about we keep the cap where it is and start taxing again at about $500,000?

Lowering taxes is a good idea. Shuffling them around is ok, but a waste of time in most cases.

Because I’m not in that donut hole.

Yes, there’s a lot of room to work on the details: make the rebate more gradual, and perhaps raise the cap on taxed income. I wanted to express the basic idea as simply as possible.

Andrew Yang’s grandiose proposal is getting a lot of support but has no chance of passage in a foreseeable future. My proposal is a step in the right direction which is not so far-fetched. This plan, combined with single-payer healthcare, would go a long way to helping lower-income families share the American dream. Note that taxpayer-funded healthcare, like the SocSec rebate, would make it less expensive for employers to hire American workers.

Social Security is already unsustainable without additional unspecified changes. Reducing almost every full time worker’s contribution by $2000 just increases the shortfall.

Is the topic of this debate that the shortfall should be covered by new taxes obtained from something other than worker paychecks? This would be quite a change, since Social Security is almost entirely funded by the payroll tax.

Since there are roughly 150 million workers in America that will cost about $300 billion a year in lost revenue. That is roughly 1/3 of the entire ss tax revenue.

Americans use about 150 billion gallons of gasoline. A year so it’s actually a $2 per gallon tax we’d need to implement to pay for it. So gas would go up to $5 a gallon. Also when people switch to electric cars or fuel efficient cars we’d need another way to regain the lost revenue.

Foe most people it’ll be a wash until they buy a new car. Then they may save a few hundred dollars a year.

Plus gas taxes are more noticeable than payroll taxes. Obama cut the ss contribution from 6.2% down to 4.2% as part of the stimulus. Most people didn’t notice the tax cut. But people will notice a gas tax hike.

In America we confuse the 1% and the 0.1%.

The 1% (300-600k on household income) aren’t the problem. They pay a ton in taxes. A household with a doctor and a lawyer making 500k a year is paying about 200k a year in taxes.

However the 0.1% and higher are making out like bandits. They pay the dividend and capital gains tax of 15% while the doctors and lawyers are paying the income tax rate of 35-40%.

So I agree, a donut hole is a good idea. Also tax all investment income above a certain cutoff for social security. Also a wealth tax like Warren proposes.

To me it makes more sense to make up the shortfall by either raising the cap on taxed income or by putting social security taxes on unearned income or both. Probably both. It seems silly that someone who makes income by mopping floors has to pay social security taxes on every dollar, yet someone who earns $200,000 in salary and another $300,000 in dividends, rent, and capital gains only pays social security taxes on 20% of their income.

It is not an inequity. Buffett’s secretary will get social security benefits when she retires. Buffett will not get any social security benefits on his capital gains.

That’s how the system was designed: you get what you pay for. You don’t pay you don’t get. Your proposal, and any proposal that removes the cap on the tax without increasing the benefits, turns it into a general welfare program which it has never been.

You may argue that Buffett does not need social security benefits, but then we are just back to the tired old argument of taxing the rich more.

I was estimating that half the carbon tax revenue would come from coal, natural gas, etc. so $1/gallon on gasoline would be sufficient.

And, as others point out, this could be further reduced by raising the cap on taxable income. Other taxes I support to help cover shortfalls are increased taxes on dividends and capital gains for the wealthiest taxpayers, and perhaps Tobin financial transaction taxes, etc.

Yes, even a 50¢ tax on gasoline would be perceived by some as onerous — though even a $2 tax would leave U.S. prices far below Europe’s! — but if such smallish taxes cannot be countenanced, then the U.S. is simply not serious about addressing climate change.

You mean tax them the same. They are taxed at a lower rate than the working class. They should be taxed at a higher rate, because they benefit from a government of laws more than most people. You may be tired of hearing it, but the truth isn’t going anywhere.

SS is a flat tax for most households. It’s only above the income cap where it’s regressive nature kicks in. A sale/use tax is just plain regressive. Helping low wage workers by likely making the overall federal tax system less progressive seems counterintuitive.

There’s a systemic problem that would need to be addressed. Many people have multiple employers during a single tax year. There’s currently no way for employers to track what has been paid in taxes. They simply collect FICA taxes on every dollar you earn unless you exceed the cap based on wages they’ve paid to a worker… Those that make enough, combining employers, that they exceeded the cap can file on their 1040 to get refunded any overpayment. Those are people well above median income already and it’s dealt with by refund not a tax bill. Now imagine someone with three jobs during a year. Maybe it’s a part-time job for part of the year in addition to a switch between two primary jobs during mid-year. All of them grant the $2,000 exemption. Potentially little or no social security taxes are collected for low wage workers. At year end they could face a big tax bill. Making systemic changes that starts producing big tax collections on the working poor every April is not what I would call help. Coming up with a solution that is easy for small businesses to comply with cheaply isn’t necessarily trivial.

The money you raise from the gasoline taxes will just be used to replace the social security shortfall. It won’t be used for climate change.

Dealing with climate change would be best done with increased taxes on pollution via fossil fuel taxes, CO2 taxes, etc. to fund subsidies and R&D into clean energy.

Confused. Money doesn’t have to be spent where it’s earned. The profits that Procter & Gamble make from toothpaste don’t need to be spent on toothpaste development; they can be spent marketing the new P&G detergent or potato chip. Government spending needn’t match up with an associated revenue source.

The reason a carbon tax addresses climate change is because it changes incentives. Someone debating what kind of car to buy will be influenced by the price of gasoline.

Yes, if the carbon tax is successful in reducing the use of carbon fuels, then that revenue source will dry up, and another way must be found to meet the SocSec shortfall. But that’s not a deal-killer for the SocSec rebate. My proposal is more modest than Yang’s or Medicare-for-all or even, for that matter, the stupid Bush-Cheney War. Let’s not get hung up on exactly how to fund it.

I don’t see multiple employers being a big problem. The employer would estimate the SocSec tax as best as he can given information employee provides. This is already the way Income Tax withholding works. It would probably be the employee portion, not the employer portion, that gets the rebate, though details are subject to refinement. (For starters, rebate might be based on wage level — someone working two $12/hour jobs might get a bigger rebate than someone working one $25/hour job.)

Okay, but also allow us to collect on that uncapped tax when we start collecting.

So are you saying $300 billion in social security taxes combined with $300 billion in fossil fuel taxes and an additional $300 billion in other taxes to fix the social security shortfall? Is the gasoline tax going to be used to subsidize the renewable energy sector or used to fund social security?

As I say in OP, it’s an unnecessary distraction to feel a need to associate specific revenue sources with specific spending. Government funds should be spent where they’re necessary or most useful. Government should raise funds where convenient or where the tax serves a public purpose (e.g. creating a useful disincentive). (When you buy a set of tires, do you need to know whether you’re sepnding the dividends from your P&G stock, or spending your overtime checks from the holidays?)

Increasing the prices of undesired energy, e.g. carbon-based, has an effect similar to lowering the prices of desired energy. If the carbon tax is set appropriately, special subsidies on “green” energy won’t be necessary — let the free market work.

And energy conservation (the avoidance of both carbon and green energy) is worthwhile. This leads to the argument that raising the carbon-fuel price is better than subsidizing green energy.