Some languages like German, Japanese, French and until recently, English, have rules for adressing others depending on the formality of the situation or relative social status.
What happens if, f’rinstance, I’m expressing my gratitude to a Japanese emperor and drop a simple “domo” on him as opposed to maybe “domo arigato gozimas”? Or if I “du” my boss at work? Basically, how severe are the social repurcussions of blowing the formality codes? Assume I don’t get the lenient “Aw, he’s just a furriner” attitude and am a native speaker doing this.
I can’t answer the question, but I’d point out that there are customs regarding formality even in modern English. Would you walk up to the CEO of the company you work for and say “Hey Dude! How’s it goin?”
In Japanese, it could be fighting words, talking down to someone like that. Gaijins get a pass, but Japanese doesn’t really have swear words like we do. This is how you do it.
OTOH, if gaijin learn how to use polite language well, native speakers will be so astounded they will swoon and do anything.
My one experience with this, where I worked out pretty quickly that I’d used the wrong word, was about 50 years ago. My family was travelling through Germany, and at a restaurant talked a bit to a couple at the next table. When we left, I said “Gute Nacht,” and their response was the more formal “Auf wiedersehen.” When I checked my phrase book later, I realised that was because you only say “Gute Nacht” to family members – so they had responded to my incorrect farewell with the correct one. That’s going to be one very common type of response, to reply to your error with the correct word or phrase.
What Giles describes is what I’ve usually seen; by the time someone corrects you explicitly it means they are starting to get real pissed. But it isn’t just about language formality: if you call me María, I’ll say my name (which is definitely not María), do it again, I’ll say “myname, please”, do it a third time, “I would much rather you called me by my actual name, which happens to be myname”. Do it a fourth time, I’ll file you under 0 for Negative IQ.
German here. Depending on your level of comfort with your boss, you might very well already say “du”. Asking someone in the street for something might also warrant “du”, despite not knowing the person at all (“Hast du mal Feuer?” - “Do you have a light?”). College students, musicians, artists and the like will almost universally resort to “du”. Doing so in a formal setting (such as meeting a dignitary or some such) would be seen as
a) very impolite
b) very immature
c) very clueless
or a variety of other bad things. So, will not be taken seriously, but it won’t land you in jail.
My discussions with friends in Germany and France and Japan has been that it depends very much on the person being addressed. MOST people are pleased to see a foreigner (especially American) speaking any of their language at all. They don’t care about grammatical or etiquettial niceties.
Imagine the same in reverse: a stranger calls you “dear Mr” (perhaps thinking of salutations in letters.) You might be startled, but you’d either help them by politely correcting or you’d ignore it. It would be boorish to think ill of them. Their sin was trying to speak your language, and doing it imperfectly. Not to say that there aren’t plenty of boors out there.
Actually, I think your phrase book was on the pedantic wrong side there. “Gute Nacht” = Good Night is just a greeting when it’s late evening: you say “Guten Morgen” = Good morning in the morning, Guten Tag = Good day during the day and good night at night. True, you commonly say good morning and good night to members of your family because they are the first/ last you see - but you also say good morning to the sales person at the bakery or your coworkers.
As long as you didn’t kiss them on the cheek for good night - that’s only done among family.
There are three types of responses in German if you call your boss “Du” instead of Sie:
you are a foreigner, but a “good” one = American, that is tourist, not guest worker (stealing our jobs). Most people know that Americans don’t speak other languages, and don’t have a Du/Sie equivalent in their language, and are therefore willing to cut some slack.
you are a foreigner, but a “bad” one: Turkish guest worker (similar to Mexican worker in the US). It will be considered an insult, and the boss might bark at you. (What usually happens with Turkish workers is that they call the boss “Sie” and everybody else “Du”, which annoys the German coworkers, because if the Turk knows enough about etiquette to call the boss politly, dammit, he can call us politly, too!
You don’t look exotic, don’t have a foreign name, you speak High German without an accent so people will assume you are a native-born and raised German:
It’s an insult (depending on situation and context, of course. If your boss has offered you the Du already; you are working at a branch of an US company where the Du is mandatory for all; you are not in the office, but in the mountains, where all hikers call each other “Du”…)
Do it often enough and people will be pissed off at you and consider you a boor.
Just because English doesn’t have a Du/Sie distinction doesn’t mean there is no social etiquette, after all. If you forget or confuse the Mr/Mrs/Ms appellation, or the Sir/Maam address, there will be repercussions in the US, too, right? What happens if you address a dear old southern lady with “Hey dude?”
In Germany, if you deliberatly call somebody an insult - not the Du/Sie confusion, an insult like asshole or idiot - that’s against the law, and the other person can take you to court for it. Not everybody does, though.
If you call a policeman a name like pig, or even insult him with an english abbreviation (ACAP - All cops are pigs), you will be taken to court for insulting him - the state protects those who serve him.
ooh goody, I get to sneak-brag. I met the Emperor and Empress back in 1995, in NYC. We stood in a long line, and they walked slowly, stopping briefly to speak with each of us.
The Emperor addressed me in English, and asked how long I’d lived in Japan. I told him 3 years, and he then switched into Japanese. The Empress, following closely behind, addressed me in Japanese too.
I used keigo with them, and they responded in either standard Japanese or humble Japanese–it’s been so long I can’t quite remember. I do remember asking the Empress which part of America she liked best, and of course she answered that every place they’d been was lovely.
We weren’t briefed–probably because we were all foreigners, and as has been pointed out, because they wouldn’t take offense at grammar lapses, and could speak English anyway. But you’re right, Inigo, I wouldn’t trot any back-slappin’ “domo”-speak out.
In fact, when folks visit us here and someone (usually a taxi driver) tells them that “domo” works as a general thank-you anywhere, I explain that it’s an extremely casual thanks and would get a snort of disapproval from the doctors who are our customers here. It’s one thing if you’re trying to get by in a store or on the street, another when you’re speaking with a customer and the only word you use is “domo.” :smack:
To expand on that: to use the Du can be prosecuted as criminal insult in Germany, and has been successfully in some cases, but only in circumstances where it was apparent that insult was in fact intended. For example, German entertainer Dieter Bohlen was acquitted of criminal insult in 2006 by a Hamburg court, for using the Du towards a police officer. The court essentially said that Bohlen was generally known as a boor so his using the Du was normal, for him.
In Pre-Meiji (and perhaps later) Japan, failure to use proper protocol to those above your social station could often result in your untimely demise. Foreigners didn’t always get a pass either day. There are several accounts of foreign diplomats being slaughtered by samurai for not bowing as they passed on the road.
Nowadays, I suppose the absolute worst it could do is get you fired and ostracized.
Of course. Do you mean that I can, in the US, insult anyone at will and be free from prosecution? I have difficulty believing that free speech covers personally insulting everyone.
(Of course, this doesn’t mean that people go to jail over it, but you can at least complain about it)
