On the envelopes provided by several of my creditors, the space normally reserved for my return address has been pre-labeled with the creditor’s regular mailing address. Does this mean that if I forget to apply postage, the USPS will “return” the envelope to the intended recipient, even though (1) you can look right at the envelope & see that both “send to” & return addresses are the same, and (2) I’m depositing mail that shows a west coast return address into an east coast mailbox? Will my mortgage company pay the postage for me?
I imagine if I tried a stunt like that myself by writing in the recipient’s address into the return address corner, the post office would roll their collective eyes at such a sophmoric attempt to cheat them out of 33¢ and promptly heave my letter into the trash without further ado. (since there was no “real” return address and thus nobody to kick the letter back to for postage due).
Having worked in a post office, usually these things are investigated if they occur with any great frequency (i.e. lots show up with the same address). Still, I would have thought in principle that this was illegal to doI would think your mortgage company would happily pay the $0.33 you forgot to put on to get your undoubtedly large check (large at least compared to a $0.33 stamp). They probably have some postage guarantee worked out with the post office for missing stamps just like those key cards from various companies where they guarantee the postage if mailed back when one of their employees loses them.
It does work. You can mail letters for free this way.
However… I belive that sometime in the last 10 years, the Post Office caught on to this little scam. They now do the checking for valid mailing address at a local level, or otherwise understand the district the letter came from. The result is that you can use this trick to mail around with your local zip code area, but anywhere else they just throw it out.
We used to do this all the time in college, mail stupid things to each other with fake addresses.
Return Address: (Your friend who lives down the street)
To Address: Lord Garth Skuvgard
99099 Odoferous Ave.
Cornpoke, Ohio
Norway, Scandanavia
10203-0405
We thought we were the funniest thing ever. Still do actually! : )
You seem to be missing my point. I’m not the one labeling the damn envelope. Here’s the deal, and I’ll type real slow for you this time:
Like, every month, I get these, like, bills, see? On the envelope provided by the payee, the space where I would usually write in my return address is already occupied by the recipient’s “mail to” address. Arjuna, you seem to be saying that it’s okay for them to do this, but illegal for me to drop this envelope into the mailbox.
I’m not trying to pull one off on the USPS here, just wondering how they treat that evnelope if I accidentally forgot to put a stamp on it. To make this even easier, I’ll make it multiple choice:
a) The USPS tosses the mail into the trash, having no real return address to reject the letter to & disgusted at my apparent attempt to send mail for free. (remember: I wasn’t the one who designed the stupiud envelope!)
b) Sends the envelope to its intended recipient & charge them for the postage since they were the ones who printed the envelope that way in the first place.
I think your question was answered already. “They’re not the one mailing the envelope without a stamp- you are (if you do it).”
They may have labeled, but you mailed it, therefore choice a. You aren’t obligated to use the envelope they provide after all.
Why don’t you call up your various creditors and try and figure out why they would do such a stupid thing? I have my share of folx I send money to once a month, I’ve never seen anything like you describe.
P.S. You can put the return address on either the front, upper-left corner, or on the back of the envelope. Why don’t you just cross out the one on front and write on back. Or get preprinted labels with your name/address that you can affix over their printing.
I understand the process, Attrayant. In fact, we wondered about this in high school. MY mortage envelope has a little square with the words “Place stamp here” written in it. It’s YOUR responsibility to put the stamp there- otherwise you are breaking the law (at least according to Hokienautic- I have no idea if it’s actually against the law). I know some of my pre-printed bill envelopes say something like “Post office will not send mail without postage”.
There’s nothing illegal about having the return address = the sending address IF THERE IS SUFFICIENT POSTAGE (again, according to Hokienautic) and THE LETTER IS MAILED. The mortage company didn’t put postage on, but they didn’t mail it, either- you did (hypothetically speaking).
If you accidently mailed it, I suppose if it came to court it be up to a judge to decide what your intent was. I doubt a DA would prosecute you based on just a few scattered instances
Here’s an extreme analogy: It’s like someone handing you a loaded gun. If you shoot someone with it, YOU’RE responsible. Sure, they gave it to you, but you pulled the trigger. If you did it accidently, it’s up to a judge/jury to decide what happens.
As I said, I’m sure it’s worked out on a local level with the mortgage company. If a payment gets in the mail with no postage, the mortgage company would really rather it got sent to them regardless rather then get sent to a ‘dead letter’ office. The local office probably tallies the up the number of envelopes they deliver as ‘return to sender’ and charge the mortgage company for this (perhaps with a small penalty).
That said, I’m sure your next mortgage bill comes with a nasty note plus some kind of inconvenience charge to make up for them having to pay your postage.
One caveat … my statements were meant to be taken together. As in, IF you address a letter like that (and notice I said YOU not YOUR MORTGAGE COMPANY) and send it with no postage purposefully in order to bilk the post office. I believe that’s called “fraud.”
I also believe it’s called “rude” when you reply to well-meaning posts with stuff like “and I’ll type real slow” or “to make this even easier.”
Please, forgive me for responding with my personal experiences to paragraph two of the OP rather than your apparently higher-priority paragraph one. My heartfelt apologies.
Yarster, I also suspected that this would be the most reasonable answer. However, let me approach the intent of my original question from a diffent angle: What is the mortgage company’s intent by placing their “mail-to” address in the place where my return address is supposed to go. That’s probably what I should have asked from the get-go. And I suspect that based on the replies I have already received, the answer is something like “They do that in case some bozo forgets to apply postage”.
I bet they do this so I can’t get an extra week or two on my grace period by saying: “I forgot to apply postage and the envelope was returned to me by the post office. But I’m sending it out right now I promise! And this time I’ll put a stamp on it! Really!”
Another reason might be so that in the rare instance where the main address is obscured by dirt, mutilation, etc., the return address is still visible and will route the letter to them anyway. I’d guess that some small fraction of letters (0.0001% ???) have that happen, and this would still get the letter to them.
Also, it’s handy for the mortgage payer, because they don’t have to spend time putting on their own return address. I like it because I don’t have to write in my address, or find the little stick-on labels I’ve got stashed away somewhere.
I was thinking along the same lines as Arjuna34. I’ve noticed that sometimes the envelope window doesn’t match up too well with the address printed on the payment coupon - especially if they’ve made a change in their stationery. (This seems to happen quite a bit with banks. The one that held our mortgage changed names and ownership 3 times in 2 years. We refinanced with a different bank).
And then you get goofballs like me - I once accidentally put the payment coupon in backwards with no address showing at all. The post office returned it to me (I did manage to put my return address on it) and yes, I did have to pay a late fee for my mistake.
Most of the bill-paying envelopes I receive are the kind with a rectangle of clear plastic on them. I’m supposed to return the portion of the bill that contains the destination address, folded up such that the destination address is visible through the clear plastic.
If I’ve managed to mess up the process, however, there’s usually nothing useful showing through that clear plastic - But, if the company’s address is also in the “return to” portion of the envelope, my payment will get to them anyway.
My guess is that’s the real intent - getting the payment even if you’ve messed up when stuffing the envelope.
We get paperwork from one local law firm that wants return copies. They include an envelope pre-printed with their return address, but they don’t write a delivery address; i.e., they leave it blank. We put in their copy and mail it. The post office then “returns” this envelope to them, as it’s undeliverable- there’s nowhere to deliver it to.
They do pay postage, though so it’s for convenience’s sake only, but still, it’s a somewhat clever manifestation of laziness.
I’m really sorry for bumping this ancient thread… but I was actually curious whether or not anyone has tried this and if it works.
It makes sense if it only works within your local zipcode area, and not across the country.
Have any dopers here such low moral scruples that they have mailed things locally for free by running this scam? If so, what did you put for the delivery address to ensure it would get marked return to sender?
