Could someone give me a brief timeline, with some flesh on the bones of it, of the book of Revelations? I’ve googled and gotten all manner of sights for it, of course, but I was hoping someone who had digested the story could sort of summarize it for me in some fashion.
I’m confused as to the chain of events – there is the rapture (triggered by the second coming?) Those, dead or alive, whose names are in the Book of Life are taken to heaven. Those who are not are cast into the pit or something, but there are still people left to follow gog and magog and the dragon into a war at Armaggedon in which Jesus and his angels finally overthrow Satan.
I think. But there is the millenial kingdom, is that after the rapture or after the final battle at Armageddon? And something’s making me think the war lasts a 1000 years. That I think I’m getting from Heinlein’s “Job.” I also seem to recall from Heinlein’s “Job” that those not taken in the rapture fought in the war, including the heroine Margerite, but from what I’ve read recently it seems she would have been fighting against the white hats if that were so . . . .
Anyway, your knowledge would be appreciated. Thanks.
Everyone has their own interpretation of Revelations. Since there is no single factual interpretation and since any answer will involve witnessing, this belongs in Great Debates.
OK, this is from memory, so it may be kind of vague, and the facts/order may not be 100%
The rapture happens, and all of the believers are whisked away to a sort of limbo state.
A big bad thing called “the beast” comes to power. It stomps around and destroys things, and people are real impressed with it. The beast eventually rules nearly all of the people in the world, and people are required to have the mark of the beast (666) on their right hand or forehead in order to do business legally. People worship the beast as God.
God has had enough, and he sends angels to pour cups of wrath on the earth that make it really suck to live here. Poisoned water and air, crop failures, that sort of thing.
Eventually, the beast with its huge army comes charging in to wipe out the badly outnumbered group of people who have come to believe in Jesus since the rapture. The battle goes down at a place called Armageddon, and things look bad for the believers until the sky parts and Jesus (Well, not exactly Jesus, but “the word”. Jesus was a human version of this member of the trinity, but he’s not in human form at this point.) rides down on a horse wearing a bunch of crowns and robes soaked in blood and stuff. Very impressive. The sky is open and the various layers of heaven are visible. Jesus calls down bird-like creatures from heaven to kick the crap out of the beast’s army. The believers win.
Jesus divides up the earth among the believers, and they all hang out and live happily for a while. When they’re all dead, it’s judgement day. All people who have ever died wake up and stand before God, and the believers go to heaven while the non-believers go to hell. The believers get a real kick out of this, I’ll bet. This is how it stays for the rest of eternity.
I’m sure I made more than one mistake in there, but that’s pretty close.
The Preterist Liturgical View-
(courtesy of Rev. David Chilton’s DAYS OF VENGEANCE www.freebooks.com)
Circa 62-65 AD-
Immortal Jesus appears to John at Patmos, send messages to
the Churches in his diocese- calling them to account before Him
(Ch 1-3)
Heavenly Church gathers around Jesus as Father gives Him
the Scroll of Judgement which He opens against Apostle-persecuting Jerusalem (Ch 4-6)
The Judaic Christian Church (the 144000) sealed by God is sent
into the world to bring the Gentiles to Him (Ch 7)
The Trumpet Words of Judgement against Jerusalem climax with the last martyrs in the City (Ch 8-11)
Satan empowers Rome to persecute Jews & the Church, both of which are preserved as a people, tho individual members may perish (Ch 12)
Rome/Emperor (Nero) becomes AntiChrist; Jerusalem Priesthood fully apostate (Ch 13)
Final gathering of Jewish Christian fleeing Jerusalem before the
Final Wrath of God poured out (Ch 14)
Sacramental Chalices of Wrath bring final Judgement on the City (Ch 15-16)
Roman Beast destroys Jerusalem Harlot & sets up own destruction (Ch 17-18)
The Presence of Jesus overwhelms Rome & empowers the Church to last & flourish through human history until the Last Judgement
at the End of the World (Ch 19-20)
God/Jesus & Redeemed Humanity (Bride) live happily ever after (Ch 21-22)
My view if the Futurist perspective is true-
Social & Natural disasters bring humanity to crisis point (Ch 6)
Judaic remnant becomes prominent in Christendom & empowers the Church’s global mission (Ch 7)
Social & natural disasters escalate upon the portion of humanity
opposing God/Christ (Ch 8-11)
The Political & Religious Rulers or Systems Christ-defying humanity turn to reveal themselves as AntiChrist trying vainly
to subjugate or destroy Judaic-Christian Church (Ch 12-13)
J-C Church gathered to safe refuges or Raptured before final Wrath poured out (Ch 14-16)
Political AntiChrist system destroy its Religious structures as they threaten its power, thus undermining its own stability (Ch 17-18)
AntiChrist system & challenging nations gather for showdown in Israel, are conquered by Returning Jesus. Triumphant Judaic-Christian Church is definitely raptured by this point & made immortal administrators of Millenial Kingdom. Those throughout the world who never worshipped AntiChrist but did not join the Church can enter Kingdom as mortals (Ch 19-20)
Millenium ends as loyalty of those born in Millenium tried by Satan’s release, Last Rebellion overthrown as God inaugurates Last Judgement. (also Ch 20)
God/Christ & Redeemed Humanity live happily ever after in New Creation. Those who persist in Rebellion lanquish outside its blessings in “Lake of Fire” (the Light of God’s Love & Justice as experienced by those hostile to Him) till they choose either to die out or to finally accept the River of Life offered them. (Ch 21-22)
There is no “Rapture” in the book of Revelation. The “Whore of Babylon” was Rome. The “Beast” was the Emperor. The “mark of the beast” was the coin with the Emperor’s face on it. There is no “antichrist” in the book either.
Revelation was intended to be a message of comfort to persecuted Christians at the end of the first century. It was a highly allegorical method of communicating that God would punish the Romans and that Jesus would return at any time.
The Hal Lindsey scenario is a fairly recent development and is at odds with with much of traditional Christian interpretation.
Here is a pretty good analysis fron Catholic Encyclopedia which gives the more traditional view and does not conflate Revelation with Daniel and some of the other elements by which millenialists have synthesized the whole “Damien” scenario.
One thing mentioned in Revelations that I have never seen discussed is the business of THE DRAGON being locked away for 1000 years, then released again for a little while. What could be the point of that?
The Christian interpretation of Revelations does not consider the possibility of reincarnation which, if true, changes the entire perspective.
If the purpose of the END TIME is to eliminate bad karma then the deaths are really not the end for tose who die. The dragon being released again involves some future karmic events.
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Cite, please? Just the other day, you said you didn’t claim to be an expert, but here you are speaking authoritatively about Christians, when you’re not even one! What’s a girl to believe?
First of all, the notion of a “Rapture” didn’t exist at all until 1830, so It’s quite fair to say that it has not been a part of Christianity for the overwhelming bulk of its history.
Secondly, most mainstream Christian doctrine still rejects it:
This is only a partial list but I think it satisfies the requirement for a majority rejection of Rapture eschatology. (I could have listed LDS, for instance, but I have a feeling you wouldn’t accept them as “Christian.”)
The “expert” conversation was on a different messageboard. I was accused of proffering myself as an “expert,” a credential I have never claimed on any MB. I have some academic background in religion. I would say that I have a better than average knowledge of the subject but would go no further than that.
Ah, but Diogenes, you have failed to prove that a majority of Christians reject that 19th century conjecture about the Rapture because No True Christian rejects that little late addition to Christian mythology.
As early as the 4th Century A.D., there were Christian writings claiming that Jesus would return before the Tribulation in Revelation and take His elected saints to heaven (c.f. Ephraem the Syrian, 306-373 A.D.).
And, of course, 1 Thessalonians 4 had always talked about a rapture of sorts.
However, you’re right that it wasn’t until 1820 that John Darby began to popularize the notion that the Rapture of 1 Thes 4 would come before the Tribulation in Revelation.
Thessalonians was not interpreted as a pre-millenial event but as a description of the last day. You are correct that there was occasional speculation about saints being taken up early, but it wasn’t an official Church doctrine, and it wasn’t called the “Rapture.” Rapture eschatology as we know it stems from Darby.
Thank you, Diogenes the Cynic & tracer for that nice bit of information about Darby and the Rapture.
Now, a question, if the Rapture is a recent invention and not held to be doctrinal by the majority of Christians, doesn’t that knock the legs out from under the whole “End Times” scenario that Fundamentalist/Evangelicals like to throw out as a threat to us unbelievers?
You would think so, but basically they just maintain that they have it right and everyone else has it wrong. See tomndebb’s link to the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.
Also, I think a lot of them are actually unaware that it’s not a universal Christian expectation.
