Review/revise my new gaming computer build

Factual Questions
1

So I’m upgrading my computer, a Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHZ with 6 gigs RAM and Windows 7(64-bit). A lightning strike in 2008 forced me to replace the CPU & motherboard, but we’re talking very similar chips with only about a 0.4 GHZ upgrade, so it’s basically a 2006-era machine, with only graphic card & RAM upgrades since then.

I’m wanting to upgrade the CPU, Motherboard and RAM.

I currently have a GTS 250 video card. The video card needs upgrading as well, but that will be addressed in a few months.

I want something that’s going to handle Battlefield 3 handily, and still have at least one worthwhile CPU upgrade available down the line without also needing to replace the motherboard. I’ve played around with overclocking in the past, but I really don’t have an interest in it now. I want 4 RAM slots, 2 of which I’ll fill immediately with 4 gigs RAM, while still having future upgrade room. USB 3.0 isn’t important as long as I can add a card for it later. I have an SATA and IDE hard drives, but have resigned myself to retiring the IDE drive. I also have a SATA DVD burner. I will be using on-board audio. I’ve always favored having many expansion slots, but haven’t really utilized them in my current build. At most, I’ll only ever need room for a audio card, a USB 3.0 card, and maybe a TV tuner card. That’s it.

SLI/Crossfire is nice to have as an option, but it’s very likely I’ll never use it, so, not important.

I’d like to do this upgrade for about $300-$330. Suggesting something for “only $30-$40-$50 more” won’t be helpful. I’m building this for Battlefield 3, the open beta is only weeks away, and sometimes people don’t have a lot of wiggle room over a short period.

Here’s the motherboard I was looking at:
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/PH67S-C43--B3-.html

And the RAM:

For the CPU, I was thinking of a i5-2400, or i5-2500k if I can swing a good deal on one.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2400+%40+3.10GHz

I’m open to other suggestions, or critiques of this build. If you see a problem, or think there’s better options I should consider, let me know. I’m particularly iffy on the RAM selection. I’m not sure if the RAM I picked is a good match or if it will hold back my system.

NewEgg is a popular site for buying computer parts, but they have a warehouse in my state, so there’s a 9.5% sales tax to add to anything purchased there. I’ll be trying to buy everything from Amazon or some other non-NewEgg source.

Thanks in advance. As you can tell, I don’t upgrade often, so I want to get it right. The guys in my clan are all AMD fanboys, and while I’d consider a well-argued-for AMD option, I would like a more balanced opinion than a fanboy provides.

2

Ugh, you’re giving me the itch to build a new PC. I haven’t built one in two years and it’s been awhile. Your build looks good, but I can’t give sage advice on the Intel CPUs. I picked AMD years ago and so now I use the same processors in my PCs for troubleshooting hardware issues.

3

I just built a PC for my wife to play WoW on in the living room. I built with fairly similar components (although I went with a MicroATX mobo for an easier build) - H67 mobo, 2X2GB 1333 DDR3, but I went with a G840 Pentium. While it only has two cores and no hyper-threading, many games don’t utilize more than two cores. Plus it uses very little power - around 35W on average, despite its 65W rating. For reference, I also have a GTX 460 GPU - a great value.

I chose Intel after over a dozen AMD builds simply because Intel finally started competing with AMD on price, while still keeping a relative performance edge - for , Intel is simply a better gaming chip these days, especially for CPU-bound games like WoW.

That said, your proposed build looks solid - the only suggestions I might make would be to look at this RAM:

…it’s G.Skill, which I’ve always had excellent luck with (never a dead stick), and it’s cas8 latency, which will be that much quicker in games. Its a bit more than yours at Amazon, but Newegg is a lot closer in price.

I might also suggest scaling back your CPU to save some dough for the inevitable GPU upgrade - as I mentioned, I’m having great success with the G840 with only two cores/two threads. I’m getting 100+ FPS in WoW at 1080P, whereas I was getting 50 on a quad-core AMD with a comparable GPU. You don’t need to go all the way down to the Pentium range, though - the Core i3 2100 with hyper-threading (two cores/4 threads) offers great bang for the buck, at about $50 or so less than the i5 2400.

If you want to research, Anandtech has some great benchmark pages that give you a good idea of the relative gaming performance of the newer components:
CPU: CPU Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech
GPU: CPU 2021 Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech

One last note - you will want to ensure that your power supply is up to the task. While the new Sandy Bridge CPUs are pretty thrifty on power consumption, if you replaced your PSU last in 2008, you might want to consider upgrading that too, just for your protection. You’ll be wanting 500W minimum, if you get an 80 PLUS unit - more if it’s less efficient.

Happy building!

4

If you can swing it, do go for the 2500K version of the processor. It’s only $20 or $30 more then the 2400 version, is unlocked, and has the Intel HD3000 integrated graphics rather then the HD2000 graphics of the 2400.

I’d also go up a bit higher on the mobo to something like this from Gigabyte. I’m running a Z68 Mobo right now, and the integrated video is absolutely fine on a 1920x1200 monitor in Lord of the Rings Online and EQ2. I have one monitor connected up to the integrated video, and the big monitor hooked up to an Nvidia card, it works fine. Something like that, and you might be able to hold off on the Video card purchase for a bit if you need funds.

Another benefit of the Z68 mobo, is that it supports using an SSD drive as a super cache for the primary HDD, but you might need to reinstall the OS if you choose that upgrade later.

5

I’m going to point you in a different direction than everyone else here. You have 6 GB of memory and an okay dual core processor. The CPU might be a little bit of a bottleneck in BF3, but I’m pretty sure you’ll get by. A quad would be nice, but the Battlefield game engines have typically not been huge CPU hogs. Your video card, however, is going to absolutely choke. BF3 will be a complete slide show on anything but the lowest resolutions and settings. My opinion is that you should take your $330 and buy a GTX 570 or an ATI 6970, assuming your PSU is up to the task. Your video card is by far the most important component when it comes to gaming, especially true of first person shooters such as BF3, where framerate is everything. You’ll likely notice a small difference when you upgrade to a quad core CPU, but the difference between a GTS 250 and something like a GTX 570 or ATI 6970 is astronomical. BF3 is a cutting edge game in a part of the industry where eye candy is everything, and it requires a cutting edge GPU if you want to run it “handily.” If it were me, I wouldn’t even consider replacing anything else. Again, this is assuming your PSU can put out the wattage that a card like a GTX 570 or 6970 will consume.

6

I would also recommend updating the GPU first. Rarely is the CPU the bottleneck for the game. And if your power supply can’t afford the GPU you want, you can probably get one pretty cheap, less than $75, if you shop around.

7

The video card is UNQUESTIONABLY important, and I need to replace it as well. However, I question the idea that my Core 2 Duo is still an “OK” processor. It’s currently listed as the MINIMUM spec for a lot of games. Also, if you Google around, you’ll find people who disagree with you about the Battlefield series not being a CPU hog. I personally know someone with the same gfx card as mine and a better CPU, and they get better FPS than I do. I forget their numbers, but mine sometimes dips as low as 14 FPS.

I plan on getting a newer GPU soon, Many people will be upgrading for BF3, and I might pick up a friend’s or clanmember’s old card on the cheap. My gfx card will be addressed, and soon, but for now, I want to upgrade my CPU.

8

I will TRY to swing the 2500k, but if I increase the cost of the RAM and the motherboard, then it gets harder to increase the cost of the CPU as well. I will think about your suggestions - if I get an unlocked CPU, it make sense to get a motherboard that allows overclocking.

9

When BF3 goes general release, or perhpas even before, I expect a lot of the enthusiast sites (Toms, Anandtech, Firingsquad, etc.) will be benchmarking the hell out of its graphics performance.

Given that, while CPU performance can be anticipated somewhat (faster + more L3 cache=better), different GPUs at the same price point can have vastly different performance in some games (especially graphics heavy ones, and especially DX11 titles), and it would make total sense to wait until you can see some benchmarks.

10

I’d really like to stay with a quad-core this time. As mentioned above, I’ve had this current computer with only gfx card upgrades, for 5 years, I believe going quad core now will help this new build last another 5 years. Games vary on how they work with dual core vs quad cores. WoW is an old game that’s been updated a lot. I believe games that will be released in the future will take advantage of quad-cores better than they do now, as they are becoming more and more common. I want to build for the near future, not the past. I’ll give the RAM you suggested a good look-see, and see when the motherboard manufacturer has to say about it.

MY PSU should be just fine, at least until I go to upgrade my GPU. My GTS 250 is fairly low-power, and the CPUs I’m looking at are only 30 watts more than my current CPU, in a system with few to no drives and cards. When I upgrade my GPU, I will re-evaluate.
Thanks to everyone for responding, I really appreciate it. You’ve given me some things to think about. If anyone has any other thoughts or suggestions, please don’t hesitate to add them.

11

I looked at the CPU performance charts on Tom’s Hardware and specifically picked one of the gaming charts (left 4 dead 2, they didn’t have a chart for BF3). Your existing Core 2 Duo scored about 140 to 150 fps depending on which one you have. The i5-2400 scored a bit over 200, which is an improvement, but I wouldn’t call it dramatic. I probably wouldn’t shell out that much money for that level of improvement.

The i5-2500k scored up closer to 250 though. That’s enough of an improvement to make it worth the money (IMHO).

That’s just my 2 cents though.

Here’s the chart if you want to take a look for yourself:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Gaming-Left-4-Dead-2,2433.html

12

Maybe much less than $75. When mine took out my graphic card in a murder-suicide back in October, the replacement power supply (450W) only cost me $40.

13

Note that BF3 will likely be more CPU-dependent than most FPS games, since it’s claimed it will have many more destructible buildings and scenery items per map/level than before. This may tax older CPUs, since deformation tends to require more processing power (unless DX11 has some trickery that offloads deform compute cycles to the GPU).

14

I can’t find it now, but I saw benchmarks with a 2500k and a 2400 in Bad Company 2 that yielded just a 2-3 FPS advantage to the 2500K. Vastly different games. Even my old Core 2 Duo runs Left 4 Dead very well, with a lot of eye candy on.

Here’s something interesting I found comparing the 2500k and 2400 and the cost/benefit. Seems like it’s a fairly large additional outlay to get a relatively small FPS gain.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1749700

15

There are two Sandy Bridge chips to consider for a gaming PC: i3-2100 and i5-2500k.

The i3-2100 is the best budget chip on the market. I can’t say it as a fact, but I doubt you’d be CPU bound in any game on the market today with it. The i5-2500k is also a fantastic value 'cause of the insane clock speeds it easily achieves, which allows it to not only crush the games of today, but also those of the next year… and next year… and next year. Just drop in a new GPU after two years. gg no re.

16

TL: DR version of the link: About $100 more for the more expensive chipset, the 2500K and the cooling solution, overclocked to a very high 4.9 GHZ=10FPS in CRYSIS. Yeah, it’s fast, but I think you’re paying well enough for that speed, and there’s no guarantee you’ll get a 4.9 GHZ overclock with your particular chip.

Also: gg no re?

17

I read the post before I responded the first time. Someone wasted a lot of time to say something really stupid. The gist of buddy’s post is that the 2500k isn’t a choice because the performance gains from overclocking are limited in today’s games and the 2500k isn’t future proof since it doesn’t support PCIe 3.0. That costs you $100 (but really only $75 since you don’t need the Hyper 212+). He’s wrong about PCIe 3.0 'cause PCIe 1.0 isn’t even saturated yet and PCIe 2.0 is no where close to saturation. He’s wrong about overclocking 'cause he based his insight on a clearly GPU-bound benchmark. If you’re competent enough to build your own PC, you’re competent enough to get a 2500k to 4.2 GHz or 4.5 GHz.

You can’t afford a 2500k on $300 though, so it doesn’t even matter. Don’t cheap out on everything else just to reach a i5-2400 though. Get the i3-2100 or save up more money and drop it on Ivy.

18

OK, I spotted a deal on the 2500K today for $199, so I jumped on it. Now I’ve got about $140 for the motherboard & RAM. I was looking at this. . .

GIGABYTE GA-Z68P-DS3 LGA 1155
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055QYKPK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

For $99.99 shipped. Any thoughts on this board? I’ll need to see if I can find suitable 2x 2GB sticks for $40 shipped. I don’t really understand memory these days, it seems to have changed a lot since my last build or 2. Used to be you’d get a certain speed and it worked. Now I’m reading the PDF file from the Gigabyte site on compatible memory, and it’s all over the place - 2400, 2333, 2200, 2133, 2000, 1886, 1800, 1600, 1333, 800 - and it all works! I don’t know which is best, which is only if you overclock the hell out of the CPU, etc. I’m guessing anything under 1333 is bottlenecking, but beyond that, I don’t know the relative pluses and minuses.

19

OK, I got the i5-2500k, and the motherboard/RAM listed in the last post. My framerate in Bad Company 2 increased from a minimum of 14 fps to a minimum of 59 FPS. Great upgrade! Don’t let anyone tell you that the Battlefield series isn’t CPU-intensive.

20

I’m late to the party as usual… :slight_smile:

With regards to memory, the sweet spot pricewise these days seems to be 4 GB DIMMS, so I suggest you go for 8 GB. This probably won’t help you much in-game over 4 GB, but it does mean that you don’t have to close down all those browser sessions and other applications before running the game and swapping out of the game and back in is pretty much instant. I’ve got 8 GB in this box for pretty much that reason.

Next I think you should consider noise: stock Intel heatsink fans aren’t exactly quiet. You should consider a fluid-cooling solution like the Corsair H series.

I strongly urge you to get a USB 3 card and external drive. This will help you when you back up your PC to an external HDD. You do back up, don’t you? The speed increase turned backing up my PC from an all-night affair to an over-lunch breeze.

When you get your new video card, get a Nvidia one. You should then be able to keep your current card and put it in the second x16 slot and dedicate it for PhysX - those wall deformations and the like.