Revisiting Gitmo (Cuba, detention) -- Nice Place

Great Debates
41

So now we begin to get the truth from western educated adults exposed to the US atrocities in Guantanamo:

“One of the Britons freed from Guantánamo Bay spoke for the first time last night of the full horror of his ordeal.
Jamal al-Harith told how US soldiers brought in prostitutes to the camp, and paraded them naked in front of the many devout Muslims. The 37-year-old also claimed he was kicked, punched and assaulted with batons”

“He told the Daily Mirror that detainees were shackled for up to 15 hours at a time in hand and leg cuffs with metal links to the skin. Mr Harith said punishment beatings were meted out by guards and prisoners were subjected to psychological torture and mind games in an effort to break them.”

This is limited information so far- there are further press reports and TV interviews to come:

“ITV and the Daily Mirror have secured an exclusive £60,000 deal with one of the five Guantanamo Bay detainees released this week.
The interview with Jamal Udeen will run in the Mirror tomorrow and editor Piers Morgan has described what he has to say about conditions in Camp X-Ray in Cuba as “staggering”.”

42

From the Daily Mirror Article:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=14042696_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-MY-HELL-IN-CAMP-X-RAY-name_page.html

“The father-of-three, from Manchester, told how he was assaulted with fists, feet and batons after refusing a mystery injection.”

“He claims punishment beatings were handed out by guards known as the Extreme Reaction Force. They waded into inmates in full riot-gear, raining blows on them”

“Medical treatment was sparse and brutal and amputations of limbs were more drastic than required, claimed Jamal”

“A diet of foul water and food up to 10 years out-of-date left inmates malnourished”

"Prisoners who had never seen an “unveiled” woman before would be forced to watch as the hookers touched their own naked bodies.

The men would return distraught. One said an American girl had smeared menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation"

"Jamal added: “The whole point of Guantanamo was to get to you psychologically. The beatings were not as nearly as bad as the psychological torture - bruises heal after a week - but the other stuff stays with you.”

“Now Jamal bears the scars of Guantanamo. He stoops into a hunch as he walks because the shackles that bound him were too short”

“As a punishment, inmates would be confined so tightly they would be forced to lie in a ball for hours. During lengthy interrogation, they would be tethered to a metal ring on the floor”

“He said one unit used force-feeding to end a hunger strike by 70 per cent of the 600 inmates. The strike started after a guard deliberately kicked a copy of the Koran.”

"Rice and beans was the usual diet and the water was “filthy”. Jamal added: "In Camp X-Ray it was yellow and in Delta it was black - the colour of Coca-Cola.

"We had it piped through with a tap in each ‘cage’ but they would often turn the water off as punishment.

“They would shut off the water before prayers so we couldn’t wash ourselves according to our religion”

“They would play tricks on people by denying them things - you might be the only person on your block who didn’t get any bread. I prided myself on never asking them for anything. I would not beg.” Jamal said they were told they had no rights. "They actually said that - ‘You have no rights here’. After a while, we stopped asking for human rights - we wanted animal rights. In Camp X-Ray my cage was right next to a kennel housing an Alsatian dog.

“He had a wooden house with air conditioning and green grass to exercise on. I said to the guards, ‘I want his rights’ and they replied, ‘That dog is member of the US army’”

And from:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=14042698_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-TERROR-OF-TORTURE-IN-CUBA-CAMP-name_page.html

“Jamal, who had been warned by interrogators they would inject him with drugs if he did not answer their questions, cowered in his cell awaiting the inevitable”

"the rooms were turned very hot in the day or freezing in the early morning by using fans in the ceiling.

Jamal said: “I’d wake up at 3am shivering like crazy. Just to keep a little bit warm I’d try to sleep under a metal bed to protect me from the cold air that was blowing in”

"Jamal said: “They were trying everything they could to frighten me. They even staged a mock beating up in the next room to me. They started shouting and pulling a chair around, but I knew there wasn’t anyone there because I couldn’t hear any chains clanking on the floor.”

Now, Where is Beagle?

43

I think the valet is bringing his bags up to his room. Hope he enjoys his stay!

44

Im waiting for Beagles reply.

I’ll keep waiting. One great thing about being a numpty is never having to examine the facts to determine your outlook.

sin

45

Beagle seems to post between 4pm and 6am GMT.

Maybe he’ll come here then and answer the above allegations.

Mind you, I suspect that he will find the word of a third word adolescent more trustworthy than an educated Brit!

46

Y’know, I think these guys have overplayed their hand, a bit, and I am probably going to give their “testimony” of Hell on Earth the same weight I gave the Heaven on Earth described in Beagle’s story. For £60,000, I know I could come up with some juicy stories if that was what the reporter was looking for and the Guardian and the Mirror have each played a bit loose with their accusations againt the Bush administration already.

I could almost accept the torture stories (although any reporter could assemble the same list from a quick review of any recent atrocities in the third world–I’d have hoped that the U.S. could be more original than some tin-pot dictator). However, the tales of prostitutes and menstrual blood, while showing some creativity on the part of the author, would seem to fail on a number of points. First, such treatment, like the “wrap their bodies in pigskin” tale that came from the Philipines 100 years ago, would seem to be counterproductive, hardening the resolve of the prisoners. (And, of course, there is the small detail of “where did the U.S. find the prostitutes?” I tend to doubt that Castro is issuing visas for prostitutes in Cuba to cross into Guantanamo just to help the U.S. with their humiliation tactics. Yeah, yeah, I know. The U.S. just flew them in from Miami or San Juan–and none of those super-patriotic ladies have ever mentioned their trips to their friends.)

It is entirely possible that the U.S. has been just as brutal as described, but the initial claims just do not ring true.

47

I take your point and basically agree. The story is a bit OTT. But, I dont think you can blame either the newspapers or the released. Two guardian articles have been linked to and they tell different stories, so the fact that The Guardian has been critical in the past is somewhat negated. As for the mirror - pah - its a rag.

I’d be pretty pissed too and why on earth shouldnt they make some cash. I rekon the US will have its legal argument sorted by now - so no compensation for these guys! They sold their stories to the mirror ( coz they had the biggest cheque )who sprinkled their magik dust over them and now we have a tabloid version ( i can hear them now: “what were the rumours inside the camp? Prostitutes !!! Hold the front page !” ).

The fact that they were released from UK detention after just 2 days speaks volumes. What extra info did the US think they would get after 1 or 1 1/2 years which they didnt get in the 1st 12 months? There must be absolutly no evidence linking these guys with anyone !

Radical extremists will be using these stories to validate their position, leading to more terrorists. Ooops.

sin

48

Just “a bit”? The first thing I thought of as I read his story is that he probably comes up with conspiracy theories for a living. I’m not deluded enough to believe that Gitmo is Fantasy Island, but tales of evil American girls wiping menstral fluid on him in an act of humiliation make my head explode. It is also makes me want to discount everything else he says as well.

Unfortunately, this is exactly right.

49

I am still thinking over the story in The World.

Hookers as a means of getting cooperation? As strange as it sounds, it could very well be. Although I live here I am no expert on the Islamic mind, but perhaps to some Afghani hillbillies the could provoke the desired response.

On the other hand much of this guys report is unbelievable. People had body parts amputated needlessly. How would he know? Is he a doctor.

Food out of date? Nah, the American Army cannot feed a bad meal nowadays. Same same with the filthy food and filthy water.

The report is first-hand and so important, but I suspect there is much here beside the kernels of truth.

50

The solution for that is so simple that one has to wonder why is not beign implemented, a inspector from the UN and/or a NGO like Amnesty International reporting how things really are there.

51

Still no sign of Beagle.

Here boy, here. :smiley:

Seriously though, if you read the article, the girls, menstrual blood and amputations are camp gossip- he says that none of it happened to him- just that he heard of it- he jokes that the Brits taunted the guards saying that they should bring on the girls for them!

OK, so ignore that (although it may well be true- if the camp is designed to strike terror into individuals, this would be a good way- I seem to remember from history that Protestant Kings used to taunt Catholic priests in the same way).

Even if it is just camp gossip, look at the rest of the stuff- believable from this Brit’s point of view- and so believable all points leftwards, liberty-wards and Allah-wards!

If the US wants to run a secret facility for proto-torture, then it had better be ready to put up with the criticism.

52

“Proto-torture”?

As Ale points out, the U.S. should have taken steps to deflect this criticism by opening the site for inspection from the beginning. However, that hardly lends credence to wild stories (of how good it is or how bad it is) except among the credulous.

The U.S. military has a long tradition of being unable to keep its secrets when it has been involved in atrocities. From Sand Creek to My Lai, the word has just about always gotten out. (Occasionally the military has successfully spun the story, but some description of the story has always reached the news media.)

In the current situation, we have already had a couple of people arrested at Guantanamo for being too nice (suspicion of aiding the terrorists), both of whom have had access to lawyers and neither of whom has screamed about the terrible conditions they’ve witnessed. In the meantime, in two years, it is most probable that most of the original guards have been rotated out, yet we have neither heard stories of revolted citizen-soldiers spilling their guts as to the terrible acts they were forced to perform nor have we heard stories picked up by reporters where drunken louts bragged about what they had done.

Again, I really doubt that Guantanamo is a nice place and I suspect that the prisoners are not treated delicately. However, the sort of wanton cruelty and massive beatings being claimed in the stories above seem no more likely than the pleasant club-like atmosphere implied in the OP.

53

I’ve never been to Guantanamo, so I can’t really know for sure, but if these stories about the prostitutes are true, where did these hookers come from? I imagine you can’t just walk off the base and go to the nearest town to pick up hookers, and bring them back onto a high-security base. I was under the impression that there’s no way to walk off the base at all without being shot.

Or would they just ship the prostitues over from Puerto Rico?

54

Maybe the “prostitutes” were female soldiers in disguise?

“Hey, those Muslem guys are supposed to go nuts if they see a naked woman. Let’s get Lt. Christy and PFC Vanessa to dress up like a pair of hos and shake their booties at 'em.” :wink:

55

Kidnapee number 2 speaks- freely and without payment:

“A second Briton released from Guantánamo Bay last night savaged the United States for gross breaches of human rights which he alleged included interrogation at gunpoint.”

"“Tarek Dergoul has started to try to give his family and solicitor, Louise Christian, an account of the horrific things which happened to him during detention at Bagram, Kandahar and Guantánamo Bay,” said a statement released last night.

This has included an account of botched medical treatment, interrogation at gunpoint, beatings and inhumane conditions"

“Mr Dergoul is not expected to speak to journalists in the foreseeable future.”

So we now have two accounts which mention poor medical treatment, interrogation at gunpoint, beatings etc… Additionally the TV news last night also said that this man confirmed the forcible drug injections carried out by beatings.

Three more statements to come tomorrow when the Staffordshire three speak to the papers. Let’s see what they have to say.

As Human Rights watch says in the article:

"US authorities have refused to allow independent human rights observers into the military base in Cuba. The International Committee of the Red Cross has access but does not comment publicly.

“If the problems are less than have been described, [the US] has everything to gain from allowing people to look into conditions and talk about them,” said Steve Crawshaw from Human Rights Watch"

56

The 3rd GC prohibits prisoners from being exposed to public curiosity and ridicule. The ICRC/RC is the Protecting Power. They are required to be let in. They have been let in.

Human Rights Watch, the Gay Whales for Jesus and other such groups have no standing. Letting them in would be in violation of the GC.

57

Why, YES, it is. Anyone see the healthiest “hunchback” standing tall in the Mirror – a leftist rag from the UK. Notice his bulging trapezius muscles and vacant stare? That stare means one thing: “it’s virgins time”

Al Qaeda leaves people in chunks. We allegedly – alleged by people with a pecuniary motive (that’s “money” for idiots) – embarrass them with prostitutes.

Leftist Europeans (Spain’s being the best recent example) lap this crap up like a bitch and afterbirth.

Why don’t I check in all the time? Not much point in debating the fact-deprived. The internet is a big place.

58

And yet, with almost 3,800 posts, one would think that you’d know better than to post your OP, then.
You, Beagle, are a liar. The reason you haven’t checked in is because your demand for an apology was ridiculous; your claim that everything is fine and dandy has been thoroughly debunked, and if anything, you’ve exposed more people to the truth about Camp X-Ray- that things really are rather unpleasant there.

My only complaint was that the United States was holding individuals not charged with any crime were being held without a hearing; NOW I have plenty more to complain about. Well done.

59

Weren’t the Spanish willing members of the Coalition.

60

Yes. So were the British. Doesn’t mean a majority of the public in both states agreed with the Iraqi invasion; in any case, the Afghan and Iraqi campaigns aren’t the same thing.