I think that’s the first time I’ve heard that theory.
Exactly. Or, if not rational, exactly, in the general realm of science-fiction.
I suppose, since I originally signed up to this board in April of 2010 after years of lurking specifically in order to join the ‘Lost’ final season discussion, and my user handle is based on the show, I should add my $.02…
In the Summer break after season 1 or 2 there was a ‘Lost’ web presence that was created in an effort to keep interest in the show active during the Summer hiatus. It was supposedly canon, and (I thought) had the blessing and support of the show runners. It was sort of a puzzle site where you look for clues and hints as to the direction of the plot arc of the show. It’s where concepts were introduced such as the ‘Valenzetti Equation’, loosely based on the real-life ‘Drake Equation’, which was the supposed explanation for the mysterious ‘numbers’ 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42. They were part of a calculation that showed the end of civilization or the human race was imminent. The whole island Dharma Initiative thing, including the polar bears and other weirdness, was part of a series of experiments that were conducted to try to change any one of the numbers in the equation, which might result in saving the human race.
That all sounded like a reasonable plan to tie together all the plot elements that they were juggling like plates on sticks, and a plot arc I could get behind, but in later seasons they threw all of that out the window like the enemy of a Russian dictator. The final explanation for the ‘numbers’, for example, turned out to be some dumb squishy woo-woo nonsense. Even part way through the final season, when my wife was saying ‘I’m sorry, but I don’t think the writers have a ghost of a clue where they’re going with all this" I was saying “just wait, I still believe they’re going to tie it all together in a good way”. Then they started getting into BS like the island’s golden creamy center, and the mythical conflict between Jacob and his smoke monster brother. The smoke monster should have turned out to be a nanobot swarm, dammit! And I regretfully admitted to my wife “yeah, you called it”. I was bitterly disappointed by that show. But, I like to think I came away with a greater sense of BS detection for when people or organizations pretend to know what they’re doing but in reality are faking it all along and have no freakin’ clue. At least, I hope I don’t get fooled again.
So, TroutMan, I hope you enjoy your rewatch, but I won’t be joining-- I don’t think I can even bring myself to hate-watch it, even after all this time. Hard to believe it’s really been 20 years… 
This sums up my feelings exactly.
In order for a show like this to be a success, the writers have to start with the knowledge of where they want to end. And then the show has to progress towards that end.
Lost didn’t have this and that’s why it was a failure.
I too never heard that theory. Even still, it’s an odd criticism. People guessed wrong about some mystery, therefore the writers suck?
Locke being paralyzed by his dad had to be the answer. His relationship with his father and resentment of him drove Locke’s entire narrative arc. It would have been a dumb coincidence with no narrative purpose if he’d been on the collapsed deck.
This is the kind of thing I’m really interested to see if and how my perception has changed on a second viewing. Did they truly have no plan, or did viewers just not like the plan they had?
This being the dope and all: cite?
Well, it certainly seemed to me at the time that the writers had no idea where they were going with the various plot threads when they started putting out silly, mystical ‘deux ex machina’ style explanations for them.
But, I’ll admit my expectations were colored by that ‘Lost Experience’ web presence early on that I mentioned. The hints at the future plot arc were firmly grounded in science-fiction, and it was a plot arc I could get behind. If that ‘Lost Experience’ web thing hadn’t existed, I may not have felt as strongly as I did that they pulled a ‘bait and switch’ on me at the end.
Not just where they want to end but when. Ideally, the creators need to start with a plan for a series-long arc, designed to resolve over one/two/whatever number of seasons, and the network needs to commit upfront to paying for that number of seasons.
There have been multiple shows since Lost that tried to reproduce its viral success based on a mystery that would resolve over the course of the series, but I was leery of getting interested in something that might get cancelled before ever resolving everything. And many of them were cancelled after one or two seasons.
I recently rewatched and was surprised at how many things actually did get resolved (for better or worse). I even found the last ep more palatable on the second go-round.
OK, so here are some overall thoughts upon rewatching the first three seasons. It’s still a lot of fun, even knowing where things are going (or not going). I’m reminded of how awesome and surprising some of the big reveals were, and somehow they aren’t diminished even knowing they’re coming. The best ones so far:
- The second episode when they first get Rousseau’s transmission. The pacing and tension of that scene are amazing, as Shannon translates it bit by bit: “please help me… I’m alone now… They’re all dead, it killed them all.” Then they calculate it’s been playing for 16 years. And the episode ends with Charlie saying “guys, where are we?” It was such a great start to the mysteries.
- First episode of season 2, where it shows the unknown person typing on an ancient computer, putting a song from 1970 on the record player, and getting on the old-school exercise bike. Everything about the scene says it’s another flashback, until the sudden explosion when you realize it’s inside the hatch.
- The finale of season 3 had two great WTF moments back to back. First, there’s the famous “not Penny’s boat” (I’ll make a separate post about problems I have with that scene). I do wonder if the season 3 arc was set up to allow an end to the series if it wasn’t renewed (“it IS Penny’s boat”). Still a wonderful scene.
- The other surprise in the season 3 finale, when it’s revealed that the Jack flashbacks were actually flash forwards. There were enough hints in those scenes that you could kind of see it coming, but still awesome.
One other random thing that hit me while watching: so much punching! People were getting punched constantly, and it seemed like someone was always getting knocked unconscious, but of course with no lasting effects. Didn’t we already know about concussions in 2004?
I remember when the show first aired, the showrunners had to wave away the need for the characters to find food.
I’m so used to the typical 8-12 episode seasons now, it was kind of shock to remember that Lost had 23-24 episodes, at least for the first 3 seasons. It’s definitely more of a commitment.
But one thing I really appreciate about it is how they have time to flesh out the characters so much more. The downside is when it’s done poorly. Hurley and the VW is an example of them doing it well, Jack’s tattoos is an example of a waste of screen time. Overall, I was fine with most of season 3 and it didn’t feel overly filler-ish to me.
I even didn’t hate the Nicki and Paolo episodes quite as much this time around, knowing how it was going to be resolved. They really were terrible, annoying characters, but the payoff of them getting buried alive was almost worth it.
And some comments on the characters:
- First time around, Locke was one of my favorite characters (other than Desmond, of course). This time, I’m struck by how annoying and pathetic he is. His old boss, girlfriend, Jack, Ben - everyone comments that he’s pathetic, and back then I thought they didn’t know the real Locke. Now I realize, yup, they did.
- I had forgotten how awful Sawyer was at first. He had a decent redemption arc, but man, he was entirely a selfish asshole for the first couple seasons.
- Shannon was slightly less annoying this time around, but that only means she was an 8 instead of a 9 or 10. They made the right call killing her off. I still can’t see her relationship with Sayid on either of their parts.
- The cameraman or director or somebody really had a thing for Sun. There are an inordinate number of lingering shots on her body in bikinis and lingerie, way more than for the other series “hotties”.
- Jack and Kate are pretty much how I remember them. Necessary characters, but not ones you really root for or against.
- Charlie was more of a jerk than I remember. Watching again, I don’t see how Claire was drawn to him. He was either being an annoying pest, trying to manipulate her, or outright lying. That said, I liked his arc. He needed to be an annoying jerk so he could mature and be redeemed.
- Arzt was great comic relief. From Hurley constantly getting his name wrong, calling him Leslie, his blustery persona, and of course his final ignoble end.
- It’s too bad Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje asked to be written off the show. Mr. Eko was a great character and would have been a great balance in later seasons.
Thanks Troutman, you and Stranger have inspired me to give the show a shot.
I think the writers knew they were iust throwing out cool ideas with no idea where they’d go and no intention of anything really making sense. They needed to have a veneer of control and plaisibility to please an audience and critics, i get that.
But with the mindset of the whole thing just being an elaborate bedtime story that spirals on and on it sounds fun.
And its always good to get a taste of big pop culture from past times with hindsight.
I’m one who was a devoted follower who in the end felt seriously jerked around by the resolution-that-wasn’t-really at the finale, but of course I knew by then what had long since dawned on me, that all the crazy stuff they had been throwing at us couldn’t possibly add up to a satisfying conclusion, but soldiered on anyway via the “in for a penny” non-rationalization. And it taught me to look out for similar red flags in future series, and bailing when I saw signs of cheap or unfair plotting practices.
But this thread reminded me of some of the good times, and part of it included the peripheral material on the web that was put out for those who couldn’t get enough of Lost and need more Lost-related items to obsess about during the off-seasons. The best was a site that ABC created called The Lost Experience, in part because it didn’t take itself and the show too seriously. It was mostly background stuff about the mysterious Hanso Foundation, including a series of videos supposedly by a conspiracy-minded woman who spies on some of their secret doings, culminating in - but you’ll have to find out for yourself.
I was hoping this site was still out there. ABC axed it long ago, and the Internet Archive has some but not all of it. Fortunately a couple of years ago, a fan made it a point to collate everything he could find in one place, and you can download it here:
Which I recommend you do if you ignore all warnings and insist on plowing through the episodes, but go ahead, life teaches you and it harms no one.
I’m grabbing it myself right now and will enjoy the fun part, though I doubt it will make me want to relive the agony and the ecstasy of a rewatch of the whole damn series. But who knows.
I can imagine how frustrating it must have been warching and expecting things to be wrapped up.
I’m just going to enjoy the vibes, like a tropical Twin Peaks
I think at some point, we recognized that there was no way to wrap things up and explain all of the mysteries. (Like that enormous stone foot with only four toes, the only remnants of an enormous statue of an Egyptian goddess.)
I didn’t watch Lost, but I remember the show that taught me that lesson. I don’t think it really matters as much today, in the era of binge-watching, but back when we watched shows and talked about them each week and sifted through the clues to try to figure out the mystery being laid, I got invested. And then I learned most often it doesn’t pay off - they keeping making up new mysteries, usually don’t provide answers, and then the “shocking event” (often right before hiatus or for a season finale) makes zero sense. Sometimes, also, it is completely contradictory to things we saw earlier (the way characters behaved when alone or even concrete information that had been revealed to the audience in such a way that it couldn’t be put down to characters lying or being wrong). And it’s just such a let down, and everything about the show is a lost cause afterwards. Why bother looking at clues to try to figure things out if TPTB are going to ignore or contradict them? Whereas when you binge a show, you don’t spend time analyzing or speculating - so you often pay less attention and even if you do pay attention and notice the problems, you’ve wasted a lot less time and effort and so the disappointment is far more minor.
I completely undersfand you but also feel like I’m lying in a bed helpless after an accident and you’re about to chop my feet off for not writing well.
I figured out fairly early in Season 1 that the show was going to end up a supernatural battle between good and evil. It was when they found “Adam and Eve” with the black and white stones on their eyes, followed by the Walt and Locke playing backgammon - I even noted it here on the board at the time. I mean, I’d read enough fantasy to recognize light/darkness symbolism when it was being shoved in my face. So even from the start, I always saw the science fiction as just the outer mantle over a fantasy core.