Or the Uzbeks, where ‘freedom doesn’t seem to be on the march’ and we’re (USA and UK) happy to prop up another murdering, torturing scum so long as he’s our murdering, torturing scum and we can get an airbase out of it.
If by that you mean it’s o.k. because it’s just business-as-usual, I disagree. I find it a trifle disingenous to speculate on what Gore or Kerry might have done if elected. You don’t know what they would have done.
This is one of the manifestations of the new conservatism (which is just plain old 20th century facism wrapped up in shiny new duds): “A lie repeated often enough takes on a truth of its own.”
Oh my God! You mean the United States acted in its own best interest??? We can’t have that! Clearly no other government or individual ever does that. Let’s just tell the terrorist that we are sorry and we’ll leave the Middle East and Europe and ask them nicely not to attack us any more. I’m sure that will work.
“Might makes right,” eh?
I really hope you are not promoting the lie that Hussein was any sort of a threat to the U.S. and I truly hope you are not promoting the utter lie that Hussein had anything to do with the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon.
Why shouldn’t he repeat that lie. The amdministration has been blasting it at us for almost two and a half years. Josef Goebbels writ large if you ask me.
On the other hand, I do not think that it is any more productive to try to equate the current adminstration to Nazis (or their actions to the actions of Nazis) that it is to allow any lies they have uttered to go unchallenged.
It is funny to see Republicans gasping for breathe in face of all the lies their heroes tell. As a matter of course they revert to the “they are all politicians and therefore crooks” bit. The funny part is is that for as much as Republicans hate the government, quite a few of them are clamoring to control it. And before you say that they reduce the size of evil government, it has been shown, by the government’s own accounting office that they indeed run larger governments when DEFENSE is not factored in. In other words, Democrats run small governments when defense spending is not factored in. To twist Rummy’s quotes around, the Republican party has been operating from a position of near perfect HYPOCRISY for quite some time. So I agree with you, at the current time, that most politicians are crooks.
But let us take a look at the lies told by that arch-liar Clinton and that great patriot Bush. First off, Clinton’s lies didn’t really hurt anyone except his family and himself. Curious George’s lies are hurting hundreds of thousands. So your “they all lie” defense fails in the face of the magnitude of the lie and how many it hurts.
Secondly, you make Georgie out like he is this courageous person when we all know he shirked his duty in Vietnam as well as that smirking twit Cheney. But hold on now, Kerry was critical of Vietnam, that makes him worse than someone who never served and went AWOL from his kick-back duty that his rich daddy bought him. For all we know he was down in the Gulf of Mexico snorting nose candy with prostitutes. This all makes him better than someone who served how?
It’s amazing the lengths that Repukes will go to shield that dumb ass with smokescreen after smokescreen. Whenever they bring up Clinton or Gore, or what would they do if they were president, you just tell them, THEY ARE NOT PRESIDENT and that GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT NOW. Our country is going to shit and that is all they have for a defense? We have been in charge for 4 years and everything is going to shit and OH YEAH, what if Gore was president when 9/11 happened? I have news for you, 9/11 happened on GEORGIE’S WATCH.
The fact of the matter is that he can’t find a 6’ 4" arab in a cave when a crippled liberal in a wheelchair had Tojo, Mussolini, and Hitler in 3 years. So that answers your question. When we are attacked by some of the greatest villains of all time with great economies to back them up, when lead by a LIBERAL we can bring them to justice in 3 years. You’re actually slacking George.
Where do you get off comparing the United States to Nazi Germany? The last time I drove the country side, I must have missed the death camps, and the crematoriums. They must be well hidden. Hyperbole like this undermines any argument you may try to make, and makes it seem like you don’t have anything better to argue. And it’s a true insult to Americans.
:dubious: It is possible to compare the Bush Admin’s “big lie” tactics with Goebbels’ “big lie” tactics without comparing the U.S. to Nazi Germany, spiff. Godwinization is not an all-or-nothing proposition.
No - what is insulting to Americans is so many of their compatriots are so stupid, so bigoted, so bent out of shape with hate that they swallow, and on this board repeat the Big Lie. This is an apt analogy not hyperbole. Both governments function on the same propaganda principle and large segments of both populations swallow it.
To turn things around. Where does the US Govt get off acting like the Nazi’s with regard to the truth with respect to the issue of lying us into a war (as my own govt did too)?
I know we want to believe that there was some vast right wing conspiracy to enter the war in Iraq, however comforting that may be to some of you. Clearly there were no WMD. But you know what; the United States wasn’t the only country to think that there were. The UK Germany and many other countries also thought that they had WMD, and Germany for one hasn’t support the US in this war - so they clearly didn’t have any reason the join the conspiracy. Intelligence let the US down. It let a lot of other nations down as well. But we didn’t go to war with Switzerland. We went to war with a bloodthirsty tyrant, who gassed his own people and invaded his neighbors and tortured thousands of his own people.
Well Herr Spiff, it’s good to see you’re doing your part. This opinion has been so thoroughly debunked on this board and in the real world I can only assume you have no interest in the truth.
The French didn’t buy it. Blix didn’t buy it. I didn’t buy it. See also the recent M16 Chief memo explicitly proving the same - and as an obvious expert on the subject I’m sure you’re aware of it so no link.
And the fight against ignorance goes on and on and on and on…
It’s not so much that you are not intelligent, you should just read more.
No you’re right Latro. Saddam was a swell guy. Bad press, don’t believe a word.
Tagos,
BTW, my dead relatives will appreciate you refraining from the ‘Herr’ sarcasm.
Silly me, I thought what we traded at Yalta was Eastern Europe’s freedom for continued Soviet participation in that war after they were done pushing the Germans out of their territory so that our conquest of Western Europe would be possible. Basically trading Poland for France.
[Moderator Hat ON]
Tagos, drop the allusions to posters being Nazis.
[Moderator Hat OFF]
Christ almighty not again.
Have you read the intelligence reports? They were full of ‘may have’ and ‘if’. The UN who were there, reported that arms were destroyed and they needed more time to verify if the rest were gone.
US, UK and other countries who supported this war stretched the meaning of the intelligence to ridiculous amounts. Blair talked of the UK being under threat of an attack in 45mins. When in actuality the report was about if the Iraqis had a field ready (short range) weapon they could fire it in 45min’s.
A former Foreign Secretary in Blair’s government resigned as he said in all the intelligence he had seen he saw no real threat
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cook's resignation speech
Oh and you do know that the US backed him going to war with his neighbours. They gave him arms and access to satellite imagery to aim them better and kill more. The US blocked a resolution criticising Iraq for gassing the Kurds. The US did nothing when the poor bastards in the south rose up against Saddam after the Gulf War I at Daddy Bush’s requests. They were slaughtered by Saddam. The US did nothing.
This was no honourable war. It was at best a disgusting Neo-con power play to try and gain control and greater influence over the ME. At worst it was an illegal act of barbarity.