Rick Perry creates diplomatic incident.

[John_Mace]

@Fear_Itself

So Perry took the bait, without questioning the characterization of the “embracing” relationship of Turkey to Hamas (which is certainly arguable). I am sure that was intentional on Blitzer’s part, and Perry stepped in it. He is unfit for the presidency, if for no other reason than this demonstrates he can be easily manipulated.

Baier, not Blitz. It was definitely a loaded question, and I suspect Perry had a canned answer. Not that most of the answers all the candidates give aren’t canned…

Needless to say, it was a really stupid thing for a public official to say about a NATO ally. Very unpresidential.

[Simplicio]

@John_Mace

A muddled response, to be sure, but the question explicitly contained a reference to Hamas. He seems to be saying that country is ruled by what could be considered terrorists, and they are not targeting their own people. That is, the terrorist designation came first.

He makes it more explicit in an interview with Wolf Blitzer

BLITZER: But the U.S. barely provides any military or economic assistance to Turkey right now. Their economy is pretty good. But on this specific issue of Erdogan and the other Turkish leaders right now, you say they are, in your words, Islamic terrorists? Are you really saying that?

PERRY: I said that if they are treating their citizens that way, that they approach that terminology. I mean, when you allow for honor killings, Wolf – I mean, I hope you’re not defending honor killings as an appropriate act in any country, much less a country that we send foreign aid to. And we do send foreign aid to that country. I think some $4 billion. That’s not just a drop in the bucket.

So no mention of Hamas there.

(also, according to wikipedia, he’s wrong about the foreign aid)

[John_Mace]

@Simplicio

He makes it more explicit in an interview with Wolf Blitzer

So no mention of Hamas there.

(also, according to wikipedia, he’s wrong about the foreign aid)

OK, he seems to be mostly keying off the “honor killing thing”, but even in that interview you referenced, he did add:

PERRY: Not at all. A country that allowed 140 to 160 honor killings in 2011, I will tell you that is not a country that America wants to be associating with. A country that referred to the Israel flotilla attack as an act of war, I mean, this is a country that’s becoming more and more aggressive to a true American ally in that area, and that is Israel.

Not a direct reference to Hamas, but it’s clear that is at least part of what he’s getting at, even if the honor killings is the main source of his opinion on the subject.

[Bridget_Burke]

@lieu

My wife and I sat with jaws dropped listening to that idiot talk about it with Wolfe Blitzer last night. His willful ignorance simply defies belief…

Au contraire, while I sure as hell never voted for that dumbass, land grabbin, child innoculating, chicked fried dipshit, I think everyone’s eyes, even those of his aggie base, have been opened now. This lead tongued jackass needs to go crawl back under that racist rock waiting for him at the deer lease.

From the Houston Chronicle:

How bad are things for Rick Perry’s presidential campaign?

The Texas governor now trails Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich in the Lone Star State.

A Public Policy Polling survey released today shows the former Massachusetts governor moving into first place in Texas with 24 percent, followed closely by the former House Speaker Newt Gingrich at 23 percent…

“It’s not just that Texas Republicans are no longer planning to vote for Perry — a lot of them even feel that Perry’s candidacy has hurt Texas’ image,” Public Policy Polling president Tom Jensen wrote in a poll analysis today.

Note: They were polling Texas Republicans…

[pravnik]

You don’t think Newt Gingrich will come here and run for governor, do you? :eek:

[Fear_Itself]

@John_Mace

OK, he seems to be mostly keying off the “honor killing thing”, but even in that interview you referenced, he did add:

Not a direct reference to Hamas, but it’s clear that is at least part of what he’s getting at, even if the honor killings is the main source of his opinion on the subject.

Turkey does not “allow” honor killings:

The Christian Science Monitor reported last year that Turkey has indeed seen a sharp increase in so-called “honor” killings — a term that “refers to a family member or members killing a relative, usually a girl or young woman, whose behavior is judged to have tarnished the family honor.” But the Turkish government isn’t “allowing” this to happen. While some have argued that the government has not done enough to combat the problem, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan called it “a longstanding bleeding wound of the society.”

[John_Mace]

@Fear_Itself

Turkey does not “allow” honor killings:

I didn’t say they did. I think this falls under the category, much used by people on the left here, that they are culpable by creating a climate of hate towards a certain group, making something more socially acceptable than it would otherwise be.

I think Perry is wrong when he does it, and I think folks around her are wrong when they do a similar thing.

Don’t you agree?

[Fear_Itself]

I am not suggesting you support Perry. I thought it was useful to point out his objection to Turkey on the basis of honor killings is unwarranted.

[scabpicker]

@pravnik

You don’t think Newt Gingrich will come here and run for governor, do you? :eek:

SHHHHHHHHHHH! he’ll hear you, and get ideas.

[dropzone]

@waterj2

Which reminds me of the Turkish embassy’s serious contributions to jazz music.

And Eartha Kitt’s contribution to Turkish music.

Regarding Korea, I loved that episode of MAS*H with the Turkish soldier because we, as Americans, CONSTANTLY forget we’re not the only dog in the room and that we are part of alliances and could not get by without them. Perry seems to forget it even more often.

[Jackmannii]

We know Rick Perry is an ass. He doesn’t have to keep proving it over and over again.

Regarding the “dignified response” of Turkey’s Ambassador to the U.S.:

@Namik Tan

Turkey is a secular democracy that has for decades been an essential and trusted partner of the U.S. Our bilateral relations are based on the common values of democracy and respect for human rights, rule of law, and free market economy…Turkey is obviously not the same country that Governor Perry visited in the 1970s. As an accession country to the European Union and a founding member of the Council of Europe, Turkey has been continuously reviewing and enhancing the rights of all its citizens irrespective of their ethnic or religious background.

Kurdish and Armenian Turks are among those who might feel that their rights have not exactly been “continuously enhanced.” From Amnesty International’s report on Turkey for 2011:

“There was more open debate regarding previously taboo issues. However, people were prosecuted under different articles of the Penal Code because they had criticized the armed forces, the position of Armenians and Kurds in Turkey, and ongoing criminal prosecutions. In addition, anti-terrorism laws, carrying higher prison sentences and resulting in pre-trial detention orders, were used to stifle legitimate free expression. Kurdish political activists, journalists and human rights defenders were among those most frequently prosecuted. Arbitrary restrictions continued to be imposed, blocking access to websites, and newspapers were issued with temporary closure orders. There were continued threats of violence against outspoken individuals”

This doesn’t justify the stupidity of a candidate for President saying Turkey is ruled by what “many would perceive to be Islamic terrorists”. But Turkey isn’t the model nation its Ambassador to the U.S. makes it out to be either.

[Chronos]

Well of course the Turkish ambassador is making Turkey out to be better than it is-- That’s his job. That doesn’t make Perry’s statement any less idiotic, though.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@John_Mace

He was probably referring to the Turkish government’s “support” of Hamas. And I use the term loosely, not in the material sense but in the diplomatic sense. The US considers Hamas to be a terror group.

Wheras I’m pretty sure that Perry considers Hamas to be a nice dip with crackers.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Well, at least Turkey wasn’t on his list of three countries he’s going to nuke the moment he becomes President.

And then he forgot its name.

[smithsb]

This question is just bizarre to me (from post 19 - Mace).
BAIR: “Governor Perry, since the Islamist-oriented party took over in Turkey, the murder rate of women has increased 1,400 percent there. Press freedom has declined to the level of Russia. The prime minister of Turkey has embraced Hamas and Turkey has threatened military force against both Israel and Cypress. Given Turkey’s turn, do you believe Turkey still belongs in NATO?”

I’d never make it as a politician. My answer would be to parse it out.

Murder rate of women increase 1,400% - Where did that number come from? If one state/town/county/nation had zero murders one year and one the next; it’d be an infinite increase. Who provided that statistic?

Press freedom declined to level of Russia - Whose opinion is that? What measureable facts were used to make comparisons? How, if actually measureable, does it compare to other countries? Is it a trend worldwide?

Embraced Hamas - Where did that claim come from? Can you provide support this opinion? What is an embrace - treaty, contract, political recognition?

Military force against Israel and Cyprus - Do you have specifics? Depending on your viewpoint; Turkey has legitimate beefs in Cyprus and already fought there. We (the US) make military threats all the time and no one is throwing us out of NATO.

Turkey’s turn - What evidence do you have of a “turn”? If true, and how would you measure it, I would point out that member nations of NATO do not operate in lockstep. NATO members frequently disagree on policy and measures to take in response to situations that confront them. Turkey has been and continues to be a vital member of and participant in NATO operations and organization.

I’d be hopeless in an interview or news conference. Strawmen, statistics pulled out of thin air, opinion conveyed as fact that I should react to, etc…

That said, Perry is a poor excuse for a candidate. His embrace of more extreme positions to garner support from fringes smacks of despiration. (Yes, I’m naive).

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Feh. Now he’s out of the race, and good riddance: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/19/breaking-perry-endorses-gingrich/?hpt=hp_t1

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@SecondJudith

What do these two things have to do with each other, please? You don’t have to be religious to be a bit cross with Israel’s government at the moment, especially from Turkey’s perspective.

The Kemalists have always been friendly to Israel unlike the current PM and while the violent resolution was regrettable, they were nonetheless illegally entering Gaza.

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

The Kemalists have always been friendly to Israel unlike the current PM and while the violent resolution was regrettable, they were nonetheless illegally entering Gaza.

Turkey has in no way broken from its secular traditions and you could not possibly have one iota of evidence to back that up. I am sure you could acquire some opinion from a right-wing source but you are thoroughly unable to speak of any particular trend factually occurring in the country of Turkey.

You show absolutely no awareness of the relationship between the government of Turkey and Israel in the past decade.

But I am going to help because I’ve seen you post this statement twice now and you seem completely undeterred by being thoroughly wrong:

Step #1: Find out when the Gaza invasion occurred; Step #2: Find out when the AK Party won control of the government; Step #3: Look up the words Turkey and Israel on Google News between those dates; Step#4: Come back and post your findings on the relationship between the AKP run government and Israel. Hopefully it will show the kind of nuance that reflects understanding something versus regurgitating the kind of ideas espoused by Rick Perry.

[lawoot]

@Elendil_s_Heir

Feh. Now he’s out of the race, and good riddance: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/19/breaking-perry-endorses-gingrich/?hpt=hp_t1

Looks like our gain is Texas’ loss.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@lawoot

Looks like our gain is Texas’ loss.

He was actually polling behind both Romney and Gingrich among Texas Republicans. Ouch.