The Rick Perry for President Thread

Politics & Elections
1

Ladies and Gents… The Real Rick Perry
*He had no problem as he handed out $16 million in taxpayer dollars from the Texas Emerging Technology Fund to companies tied to his top political contributors… the public corruption scandal showed that he gave his “close friend” and campaign contributor David Nance a $4.5 million handout, despite the fact that Nance side-stepped two review boards to receive it.

He feels that it was absolutely fine when he covered-up and refused to answer ethics complaints involving more than $1 million in potentially illegal state expenditures. One complaint zeroed in on the $816,000 in campaign dollars, reported in lump sums, for what Perry calls “mansion expenses.” For months, Perry reported a flat monthly expense ranging from $3,000 or $6,500 as “mansion expenses” without any supporting detail – a violation of campaign disclosure laws. The expenses were for Perry’s $10,000-a-month taxpayer funded rental mansion. Additionally, Perry failed to disclose $204,400 in debt on his College Station home from 2007-2009.*
Rick Perry and the Myth of the ‘Texas Miracle’
*“We keep adding jobs while others are losing them left and right,” he told the Republican Leadership Conference during its mid-June meeting in New Orleans…

There’s just one problem with that portrayal. While Texas has created more jobs than any other state in the past two years, the increase is far less than advertised. The rate of increase is not much higher than a number of other states, including former rustbelt centers like Pennsylvania or liberal sanctuaries like Vermont.

Moreover, its recent performance is a classic case of “all hat, no cattle.” Texas lost 34,000 jobs in June, causing its unemployment rate to jump to 8.2 percent, which ranks it 25th among states and leaving it worse off than its immediate neighbors.

[W]hile state and local governments nationwide have eliminated over 400,000 jobs in the past year, government employment in Texas actually grew. There are now 1.66 million state and local government employees in Texas, an increase of 66,000 in the past two-and-a-half years…

[Texas has] strong advanced technology sectors, including semiconductors centered in Austin and aeronautics centered in Dallas. “We’re cheaper than Silicon Valley for advanced technology because a professional’s salary goes a lot further in a state without a state income tax,” he said.

Yet that didn’t help Texas avoid losing 132,000 manufacturing jobs or 14 percent of the total between the onset of the recession and December 2009. Since the recovery began, the state has regained only 11,000 of those jobs. The information technology sector also remains well below its pre-recession peaks.*
Rick Perry tries to intimidate a State Trooper to get out of a warning for his driver going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit (dash cam video).

Prayer Rally Dwarfed By Texans Who Flock To Nearby Convention Center, Desperate For Free School Supplies
*Houston’s biggest gathering on Saturday didn’t see national television news crews. It didn’t draw out protestors. It didn’t spark its own Twitter handle. And the event — which attracted an estimated 100,0000 people to a convention center just seven miles down the road from Gov. Rick Perry (R) and The Response prayer rally — had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Texas families struggling through hard economic times.

“Some families camped out for hours to gain admittance into Houston’s first-ever, citywide back-to-school event at George R. Brown Convention Center, where free backpacks, school supplies, uniforms, haircut vouchers, immunizations, and fresh produce were provided [by private industry]…

Only a few miles down the road from Jones, her governor prayed alongside 30,000 people for all those “who have lost hope.” He did not see fit to mention either the thousands of his constituents lined up for free back-to-school items or the multi-million dollar cuts his budget will inflict upon the Texas education system.*

Don’t Believe the Hype. Meet the Real Rick Perry
Republican Liberty Caucus of Texas Sends Warning to Republicans Nationwide About Perry’s Tax and Spend Record

Texas Governor Rick Perry may be the flavor of the day for a lot of Republicans, but Texas Republicans who are familiar with his record are a lot less enthusiastic about his presidential run. “Perry has a unique talent for finding new ways to raise taxes and loves to use taxpayer money to subsidize his business cronies,” says Secretary Dave Nalle of the Republican Liberty Caucus of Texas. “His supposed belief in limited government and states rights conveniently disappears whenever it conflicts with the demands of the special interests and corporate cronies who he serves.”
So. Any supporters here?

2

Rick Perry is dangerously incompetent. I’ve been speculating for a little while now that my party (GOP) needs a Dukakis candidacy, essentially we need to nominate someone so fucking terrible that the party can look at itself afterwards and reflect on how stupid we have been and try to rebrand ourselves in a way that will improve our national appeal going forward. Arguably I think Dukakis did that for the Democrats and produced a nationally acceptable Clinton in '92.

I think Rick Perry could be that candidate, but I can’t even get behind Perry as a sacrificial lamb to cleanse the party; because if he somehow beat President Obama I think he’d be the most ignorant, unintelligent and incompetent person to be in the White House since Warren Harding, and he’d be the most dangerous person (due to his views on a wide range of social, economic and FP issues) in the White House since FDR.

3

Wow. Worse than GW Bush, even? Now that’s scary! :eek:

4

I rate George W. Bush positively over all.

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Also, while I think Perry is one of the worst things to hit the national scene since Michael Moore, most of the stuff posted by the OP is more or less meaningless drivel, misrepresented, or outright bullshit. It’s very indicative of someone who saw Perry enter the national stage, google up random stuff until she had some links she felt painted a picture and then spewed it out here.

I’m highly unimpressed with stuff like that because you can do it for any candidate of any party. Obviously some will be easier than others, but even genuinely good guys can be painted negatively like that.

The only one that is unequivocally bad is the State trooper thing. That’s about on par with Jon Corzine’s having his state trooper that drove him around in his official SUV drive 90+ mph on the interstate and cause a serous car accident level behavior, meaning stupid personal behavior but not all that relevant otherwise.

The other stuff is meaningless or misrepresented. Like the “myth of the Texas recovery” that article doesn’t really refute anything and doesn’t directly contradict anything Perry said. It also doesn’t obfuscate the fact that Texas has mostly done better economically during this recession than the average state.

The free school supplies thing is also irrelevant. Free school supplies are more popular than a religious rally? Not too surprising…free stuff is free stuff. Any state in the country would have a big turnout from lower income families if you gave away a bunch of school supplies. Most states don’t buy kids notebooks, bookbags and etc for them, so it isn’t really a black mark on Perry that Texas school kids are getting those supplies from a private company. I’m not even really sure what point that article is trying to make. Perry has done a bad job with Texas Dept. of Education and has made funding cuts he shouldn’t have, but that has nothing to do with pencils and backpacks.

6

And actually in June 2000 when the dash cam video was taken Perry wasn’t governor of Texas, George Bush was.

7

If that’s your standard of measurement then maybe Rick Perry isn’t that bad after all!

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We don’t really need to have a George Bush debate, I did that on these boards for about 8 years. That’s a minor part of the discussion, I’m sure there are past Presidents you really like that I really hate. The key point was I’m saying Perry would be a very bad President.

9

Are folks in the Obama camp really worried about Perry?

Romney I can live with. Before the Pubbies took their recent detour to crazy town, Romney was a sane politician who did a credible job running Massachusetts. A pragmatic, business oriented Republican in a heavily unionized, liberal Democrat state. He has the experience, intellect and educational background to be a world leader.

Sure, he’s obviously a corporate puppet, but then at least he doesn’t promise anything different. (Unlike, well, you know… )

Perry on the other hand, looks like a disaster. Still, he’s the guy most voters would rather have a beer with.

10

Dude, I have made no bones about the fact that I am a true blue partisan and I make no apologies for it. But how about you actually refute any of the claims made in those cites instead of attacking me (which you know isn’t allowed in this forum anyway)?

Did I say he was governor when he was pulled over? No. He was, however, an elected official at the time; the – ahem – Lieutenant Governor. So what was your point?

It wasn’t intended as a refutation. It was intended to point out what it pointed out – that Texas has an advantage in the “jobs” category because of the oil and gas industry, a luxury not available in most other states. Additionally, most of the jobs Rick Perry “created” during his tenure have been the very jobs the Republican Party as a whole have been railing against – government jobs.

Again, you miss the point. The article’s intent was to show that Governor Perry pays lip service to giving a shit about “those who have lost hope,” because he’s the one who shorted the education budget by $4 trillion. But hey, he’s prayin’ for 'em! :rolleyes:

Not that I know of. I just started this thread in the spirit of Snowboarder Bo: I thought maybe it would be a good idea to have threads for individual POTUS 2012 candidates, so their positions, pledges, promises and gaffes could be easily tracked
And there wasn’t one for our most recently announced candidate, Rick Perry.

11

Letting a major campaign donor side-step the review process to get state investment funds seems the most damning, assuming its true, anyways. The other stuff, as you say is pretty minor even if its true. I don’t really care if he helps his staff get out of traffic tickets or itemize his expenditures correctly. But letting 16 million walk out the door to campaign donors is a real issue.

Here’s more reporting on the story.

12

I think that even a veiled threat to secede should be enough to disqualify him in the eyes of the voters. I know that’s what the Right would be telling us if Obama had made that statement.

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I did actually refute essentially all of those claims except for the Tax and Spend one.

All of the things you linked basically fall under the category of “stuff that you can post about any candidate, ever.” My whole point is I can think Rick Perry would be a horrible President because of who he is as governor. He alienates everyone outside of his party and even some people inside his party. He is a religious demagogue. He has shown grave ignorance about the economy and the nature of the Federal government. He has made questionable decisions fiscally.

I don’t need to find stuff like:

“Rick Perry talks about how many jobs have been created in Texas, but this report shows that Texas rate of new job creation is beat out by some other states.”

That’s what I call a gotcha game, and I see no reason to play that game where people just scour the internet for ways they can craft something to undermine some politician in some minor way, especially when the stuff you’re bringing to the table really doesn’t undermine anything.

For example the job creation article, just linking it is suggesting that Texas hasn’t create very many jobs and in fact that the Texas recovery is a “myth.” Your cite does not say that, it says that while Texas has created lots of jobs in terms of raw numbers, its “rate of increase” is not leading the nation. It also mentions that government jobs have grown under Rick Perry. That is neither here nor there and doesn’t do anything to buttress the claim that the Texas recovery is a “myth.” Generally you would actually expect government jobs to increase during a period of economic growth. It stands to reason that if you have 100 private sector employees and 10 government employees and the private sector adds 100 jobs you might need 10 new government jobs. Those new jobs might represent new people in the state that will need government services, or new business or activities that require more government labor to oversee / regulate.

Essentially you just posted a random economic article and you paired it with a hyperlink calling the Texas recovery a “myth.” Well, the fact is the Texas recovery isn’t a myth. Texas has had an economic recovery and its unemployment is a bit lower than the national rate, so during the country-wide recovery Texas has done a bit better at lowering its unemployment rate versus the country as a whole.

Then there was the prayer rally article. What’s that even about? Are you trying to say Rick Perry isn’t popular? There are more effective things you could do if you wanted to illustrate that, there was a national poll that showed Perry as being seen less favorably than President Obama in Texas. Although that poll was flawed and the reporting on it was flawed you could still have found the most recent approval ratings of Perry in Texas, last I heard he has a 54% approval rating and President Obama has a 51% approval rating among Texas voters (higher than his national rating) so that might have been a little more compelling if you point was that maybe Perry wasn’t super popular.

But yeah, I don’t think it really says anything about Rick Perry that 30,000 were at a day long prayer rally and more people were at a free school supply give away. What point were you actually trying to make? How did that article say anything about Perry at all? If you wanted to criticize Perry’s educational policies (something I criticize) I think it’d make more sense to you know, criticize Perry’s educational policies. Not link an article that says little to nothing about those policies (aside from a brief mention of how he has cut funding–there are full length articles that talk specifically about educational performance under Perry that are much more powerful and relevant.) Further, it was 7+ hours long and he was totally absent until the very end. So I don’t know that that rally has much to do with anything other than it got Perry on the news, but he was really already on the news. I consider that article meaningless drivel, if its intent was solely to talk about Perry’s poor behavior in regards to education then why didn’t you link one of the many articles actually about that? That’s what makes the article meaningless drivel, the fact that it’s about nothing of any importance in evaluating Rick Perry as Governor or as a Presidential candidate.

The State Trooper deal would have been notable if he had come off as a huge flaming asshole, and if it had been more recent, because that would have had something to say about Perry’s personal qualities. Instead, it’s over 11 years old and he’s mostly mild mannered during the exchange, no worse than lots of people I’ve seen get impatient when receiving a ticket or warning. He doesn’t even get caught on camera pulling anything like “I’m Lieutenant Governor you need to hurry this up” he just talks about “a meeting.” Again, I think there are better examples of Perry’s personal failings than this. This one is essentially meaningless drivel, in fact I almost wonder if it was deliberately hoped that no one could click it, because anyone who watched that video would probably not form any negative opinion on anyone based on their behavior in that video. I think the video where Rick Perry refers to himself as a prophet is a lot worse and actually more recent.

As for calling Perry tax and spend…yeah, he has introduced a franchise tax and I believe cigarette taxes went up under Perry. He has spent money luring businesses into the State and some of those businesses were owned by campaign contributors. That part is valid to bring up, but without context it is of limited value. Factually speaking though, he has decreased spending, not increased it. Just because he spent money somewhere doesn’t mean he is “tax and spend.” Tax and spend typically means you raise taxes and raise spending. Overall taxes in Texas have, when you factor in lower property taxes, gone down while Perry has been governor not up, spending has gone down, not up. The tax and spend argument you linked to is basically saying:

“The government collected some taxes under Governor Rick Perry, and a few new taxes were introduced. The government also spent money. Perry is tax and spend!” Well, no, that isn’t what anyone usually means when they call someone tax and spend.

Like I’ve said, I don’t like Rick Perry. I don’t mind partisans, either, nor do I expect you to be unbiased. What bothers me is when someone has obviously just pulled random articles out of the air and not really formed any coherent critique of a candidate with them, when it is clear the intent of linking them is to critique. I don’t care if you’re biased or not, but I’m just saying there’s a right way to critique someone that involves attacking them on the real issues not trivial bullshit, and actually talking about important stuff, and then actually bringing up articles and representing what they say honestly. Instead you’ve brought up shit about Perry getting out of his car during a traffic stop 11 years ago, an article you linked to show Perry has fucked up education in Texas but that barely mentions that (when dozens of articles are readily found on google that go in depth about this very topic), and an article which you claim shows the Texas recovery is a myth when it does no such thing. Being a biased partisan doesn’t have to equate to making sloppy critiques of people.

14

Dude, get over it. I really couldn’t care less if you like the particular links I posted. I posted them because I think they say quite a bit about the bluster, the morals and the politics of this man who wants to be our president. You are quite free to disagree with them. But saying “yeah, well they could say a lot of this stuff about other candidates, too” isn’t an argument that they aren’t damning to Perry when applied to him.

Not to mention, you continue to blatantly misrepresent how I presented the links. For instance, I did not “claim [the article] shows the Texas recovery is a myth.” I copied and pasted the title of the article, which is where the term myth was used, then excerpted portions of it. Period. Don’t like the use of the term ‘myth’? Take it up with the author.

You have better articles about how Perry fucked up education? POST THEM.

Now all of a sudden there’s a statute of limitations on how far back in history we’re allowed to go to show a candidate is an ass? Did you bitch at your fellow travelers when they dug up a cocktail party thrown by Bill Ayers 20 years ago for Barack Obama?

Yeah, didn’t think so.

But by all means, go right on attacking me. :rolleyes:

15

Just on things you could really blast Perry for without having to resort to trooper dash cams:

  1. Texas has one of the more regressive tax systems in the country, the poorer you are, the greater portion of your income that goes to the government. It is more regressive than the average State (most States are somewhat regressive because of their heavy reliance on sales tax which is intrinsically regressive.)

  2. Rick Perry has called Social Security Retirement Insurance a Ponzi scheme. Even if he is saying it to exaggerate, it’s a dangerous lie. Politicians make lots of claims about Social Security but I think that one is especially egregious and was either an outright and very manipulative lie or ignorance, pick your poison.

  3. Rick Perry whipped a crowd into a secession frenzy. This should scare people, this shows that Perry has dangerous ideas and is a demagogue. It’s hard to take it as just rhetoric, and in the years that have passed since that happened his clarifying statements have mostly been reaffirming his belief that Texas can secede whenever it wants. This shows a deep ignorance of history and the law, and for someone in Perry’s position to even talk about such things makes me question his mental state. If you’ve listened to this speech it honestly could have come from John Calhoun or any old fashioned, 1830s South Carolinian nullifier or 1850s / 1860s southern politician. A Perry Presidency could genuinely see a return of an era in which States can trample on people’s constitutional rights and the Federal government does not actively work to curtail these activities.

16

I don’t have anything to get over. I also think if you would bother to read what I’ve written you will note I am attacking the quality of the arguments and links you are using to critique Rick Perry, that is not the same thing as attacking you.

If you take it personally when someone says “Yeah, I agree Rick Perry sucks but so does your stuff bashing him, come back with better stuff” then maybe you should get better stuff or, you know, genuinely not care what I say, because it’s obvious you do since you feel you are being attacked.

17

As for education:

Perry cuts Library Funding

Perry school funding cuts

Test scores and drop out rates The last one is very interesting because it shows that Texas has essentially no credibility in reporting drop out rates and test scores, and that its educational system is pressured to make both numbers look better than they really are, editorially I would say that is to cover up the fact that Texas ranks poorly on both.

I can see how those aren’t as interesting as an article about people getting free back packs while Perry is giving a speech somewhere, though.

18

STOP imputing motives to me. Just. Fucking. Stop.

From one of the links I provided:

(1st means highest ranking, 50th means lowest ranking).

• State Aid Per Pupil in Average Daily Attendance – 47th
• Scholastic Assessment Test (SAT) Scores – 45th
• % of Population 25 and Older with High School Diploma – 50th
• High School Graduation Rate – 43rd

But do go on posting additional links, considering THAT’S what this thread is FOR.

19

Perry is too phony even for the Tea Party. His pandering speeches are supported by coached gestures that are never in synch with the text. It’s like watching a TV re-run where the sound is screwed up.

Bachmann may be crazy as a bat, but she’s real.

Crane

20

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/06/10/241830/top-10-thing-texas-gov-rick-perry/
Perry thinks Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional.
Texas has the worst air pollution of any state.
Perry has brought up secession from the union a few times.
He decried the stimulus package yet used billions of Federal money on Texas projects
Proposed every woman who is after an abortion have to take a sonogram first
He thinks the income tax provision in the constitution should be repealed
He thinks public elections of Senators should be abolished.
He rejected Federal Food programs for kids even though Texas has a 25 percent childhood poverty problem