Be careful what you mean by most “programs”. Most major-college football teams, considered on their own, would be profitable. How could they not be? They fill up 100,000 seat stadiums seven times per year, get oodles of TV revenue, and pay their athletes only scholarship money. However football and men’s basketball must support facilities, coaches’ salaries, and scholarships for many other non-revenue sports, especially women’s sports. The athletic programs as a whole often run at a deficit, even when football and men’s basketball are profitable.
From your own link, no it really doesn’t. That 12 million that went to the general operating budget went to cover athletic scholarships. That’s not supporting the overall school, that’s supporting your athletics program.
Don’t worry, there are still plenty of sporting events that the marching band can play for. Penn State has no less than 64 arena football teams.
I doubt it. People tend to rally around individuals and institutions during bad times even when there is wrong doing. If the team plays well, they will have little trouble attracting fans and support. The first game after Paterno left, and after Sandusky was indicted (11/12/11), had attendance of 107,903. The next game had 105,493. Average attendance for the previous year was 104,234. Maybe things will change, but I don’t see any signs of it.
You wouldn’t see it yet. For decades, people are going to think of this scandal when they think of Penn State. The rally 'round the flag effect helped their donations and attendance this season, but it’s not going to help forever and it won’t help with recruiting high school kids who haven’t seen that many good Penn State teams in recent years.
I agree. As an outside observer, I would look at any football player signing with Penn State from this point forwards with a bit of skepticism. Slightly because of their choice, but even more so in a “you couldn’t get into anywhere else?” Who knows how it will play out, but a class of 2016 Penn State football player will at the very least look desperate.
University of San Francisco had a self-imposed two-year ban on men’s basketball in the early 1980s. For all intents and purposes, it turned into a lifetime ban as far as being competitive is concerned.
I assume you mean “big-money” college football. Nobody seems to have a problem with Divisions II and III, or even with FCS.
The problem is, how do you replace it? You need some level between high school and the NFL. I have suggested a “minor league” system that “just happens” to have teams in the same cities as major universities - the only links between the teams and the schools would be that the games would be played in the schools’ stadiums. You no longer need to worry about things like the effect of Title IX on paying players, or even that players have to attend college (although if some of the players did want to attend college, how about that - there’s a university where the stadium is located! (well, usually - Sam Boyd Stadium is not exactly “right next to” the UNLV campus)).
You do realize that for many/most universities, including the big Division 1 football programs, the athletic department runs at a net loss and is covered by the general fund because it’s good recruitment propaganda for the school as a whole, right? According to the NCAA’s own numbers, the median net revenue for Football Bowl Subdivision schools was -$9,446,000 in 2010. In other words, the median big-name football school LOST $9.5m on athletics. Penn State, on the other hand, is one of not very many schools that pays into the university general fund and doesn’t take money back out.
The rallying won’t help forever, but them being a good team will help indefinitely. Only time will tell what the fallout will be, bu I just don’t see being so toxic as an institution that people won’t play for, or see a good team. Nobody remembers things for decades. This will be a footnote by then.
PSU’s incoming recruiting class is good, and still committed. They have the 15th best ranked recruiting class for 2013. All these people were inundated with the bad press, had an opportunity to bail, yet chose to stay committed.
I don’t agree. We have a couple posters in this very thread stating that we shouldn’t punish the players or fans for something already-gone administrators did.
The fans willing to buy jerseys can make the same sort of mental seperation between Sandusky and the team or school, I think.
Further, I think that if the trustees HADN’T taken relatively decisive action in the cases of Spanier and Paterno, you’d see the numbers of fans decreasing. What it boils down to for me, personally, is that the fanbase and the university are generally taking actions that indicate they are have no intention of being associated with those assholes who’d smear the name of the school by doing heinous things while associated with it.
By the same token, I’d happily sanction every last motherfucker who was so damnfool as to protest in favor of Paterno when it came to light that he knew.
The Freeh Group report came out last week, and it established that Paterno and the leadership of the school chose to do nothing about some of the earlier incidents and kept the board of trustees in the dark. Before now, we didn’t have proof that Paterno knew about an earlier incident and that some of the other key figures made a choice not to go to the board and others (even though they knew this could blow up in their faces. And the NCAA sanctions, death penalty or not, are forthcoming. Do you really think they’ll have an easy time selling jerseys and recruiting 18-year-olds in 2013, 2014, 2015, and on? I don’t.
They can’t separate Penn State from Joe Paterno and his role in the coverup.
By the way, did someone upthread mention the possibility that the whole board could step down? They won’t.
Sure, and your point? As I’ve stated previously, I’m fine with colleges or universities having an athletics program and funding those as I think fitness and sports are part of a well rounded education.
However, you seem to be holding up athletics programs as supporting the university, which frankly I don’t believe they do. I have yet to see any evidence that revenue from a university sports team went to help pay for the math department, or a new science building, or an academic scholarship.
Zeriel already said the athletic departments at most major sports powers lose money. They are worth it, so the thinking goes, because the team functions as an advertisement for the school. He’s not arguing that the revenue from the team supports the rest of the school.
He did in post #152.
So? Why would they care? Honestly, I think you are substituting your own priorities for theirs. They are trying to make it to the NFL, not become boy scouts.
Maybe. I hardly think that is a given.
Kobe Bryant had no problem selling jerseys while he was under suspicion for rape. In fact, he became more popular. You can still buy an OJ Simpson throwback jersey. Bill Clinton still had high approval numbers after being impeached. People really don’t care, or at the very least, can compartmentalize well enough that this fiasco will not harm them long term. Especially for decades. That’s just absurd. Can you think of any scandal people remember, and have strong feelings about, for decades? Most people couldn’t tell you when Hurricane Katrina happened. Spaniel already has a new job. The taint doesn’t last long these days. It probably should last longer, but it doesn’t.
You overestimate Paterno’s influence. He was a walking corpse for like the last 4 years he “coached”. He was a legend, but history doesn’t keep kids coming in the door, wins do (see: Notre Dame). If Penn State is good, all of this will blow over pretty soon. Suspensions didn’t hurt USC too much, so I don’t see why PSU would suffer.
That post has a cite for his assertion about Penn State.
Because the football program at Penn State isn’t so glorious anymore, which makes it a less appealing place to play football.
Most of them are just there to play football and don’t harbor much hope of going pro. A small portion think they could be pros, and those players will have other opportunities.
Catholic Church pedophilia coverup.
I’m not overestimating his influence, I am commenting on his prominence. He was the coach for generations and he was the face of the program. And it’s now been proved that he was aware of what was going on and that he didn’t do anything about it.
Yup, which didn’t prove his assertion but actually refuted it.
Ancient history doesn’t attract recruits, wins do. That’s why Notre Dame has sucked much of the last 15 years or so.
Fair point, but I don’t see a PSU degree being worth any less.
Do you really think this still bothers Catholics? More importantly, this was one pedophile, not dozens lasting over decades. Even so, I don’t think the church lost too many parishioners over the last few years relative to any other religions. Sure it’s PR took a hit, but that means very little in the grand scheme of things.
And likely, most current recruits will agree that they would never play for Paterno. Luckily, that is not an option.
That said, I think you are missing why a lot of people love sports. It’s because who you are, what you do, and where you are from doesn’t matter on the field. It doesn’t matter if your dad is rich, or if you mom’s on drugs, if you can ball, you can play. It’s as pure a meritocracy as we have. People are used to looking at sports through that very narrow lens. They don’t care about all the drama off the field. They don’t care that you might have murdered someone, or that you killed dogs. Sure, some people do, but those feelings fade with time, and, in aggregate, don’t amount to much. That’s why people have no problem rooting for Kobe while under suspicion for rape. If PSU is good, people will support the program, period. All the evidence so far says they have, and I doubt that will change just because a damaging report has come out. Either way, time will tell.
Perhaps, brickbacon, it’d be instructive for you to tell us what an honest mission statement for PSU would look like.