Bricker, because, by definition, once a Jew accepts Jesus as the Messiah, he’s no longer a Jew. He may be a ETHNIC Jew, or you could call him a Messianic Jew (AKA Kosher Christian).
But he can’t be a practicing Jew.
Stole* that* (standing one one foot) from Hillel!
Not sure how modern the responsora is before it no longer falls under the Torah Tent…
There are modern-day responsora – do a search on Rabbi Moshe Feinstein’s commentary about kashering a dishwasher.
While I would argue that it IS necessary to have a good working knowledge of the Constitution and history in order to be a good citizen (a tighter term than American), the two are incomparable. One is based on observance of human laws during the course of one’s life and the other is based on belief in the supernatural and eternity. When the supernatural enters, all comparison ceases.
No it’s not.
If I read a book ABOUT the bible…that’s not the same as reading the entire bible in toto.
Because if s/he has not read the Scripture, how can s/he agree with them? And if they do not agree with them, and accept them as truth, how can they be a Christian?
Say what?
The notion of what it means to be an American citizen is enshrined and developed in the founding documents (and their preceding documents like Locke etc…).
Why is it ok to just have “a good working knowledge” of them in order to be considered a “good citizen”, but one MUST have read the entire bible in toto to be considered “a good Christian”?
Depends, but you are generally correct. If one accecpt Jesus as the Christian Messiah (which differs quite a bit from the Jewish messiah), then you aren’t a Jew by faith. However, there are some Jews alive today that insist their now dead Rabbi is the messiah, and modenr Jewish opinion is divided on whether or not they are “Jewish”. Thus, a beleif that your rabbi/teacher is/was the messiah does not nessesarily exclude you from being Jewish by faith. It’s how you beleive in his messiahhood.
Well, to be fair, who sets that definiton Guin?
Jewish identity is extremely… difficult to determine sometimes. Some would say you’re a Jew simply because your mother was. There was even a priest who certain factions in Israel wanted in under the Law of Return. Some would say you’re a Jew if you observe the mitvot. Some would say you’re a Jew if you’re ethnicaly Jewish even if you’re an atheist. Some would say you’re not a Jew even if you’re an observant Reform Jew.
And of course, some have said that you’re a Jew even if only one of your grandparents was.
There have been messianic cults throughout the history of Judaism, and we still refer to them as Jews. It’s a tricky issue, especially since there are christians out there who have a stated goal of converting all the Jews in the world to their religion… very tricky.
But from what I’ve read, though, you’d be considered a heretic Jew. I mean, I’d still say they can identify as Jewish, but it seems to be going against the teachings, as far as I know.
But then, you’re always going to have (ha!) unorthodox members of any religion!
Er… I’m not talking about accepting Jesus as the Christian version of a messianic figure: a paschal-innocent, divine/human who sacrifices himself to save the world from the consequences of sin, and is miraculously reborn. I mean the idea of Jesus as moshiach, a man, not a divine being, as someone who fulfilled the prophecies of Isaiah and Jeremiah.
If I thought it was a book that has the rules my omnipotent creator wants me to live by, and my following of these rules will be judged on in the afterlife, I’d put it pretty high on my reading list! Above the latest Stephen King book at least. Well, maybe not the final Dark Tower book.
Oh. You meant good historian, not good Christian, right?
So would I. But what if you didn’t think that? What if you thought that the omnipotent creator loves you unconditionally — even if you’re, say, illiterate?
What if he puts sugar on his porridge?
I suppose if one thought of the Bible as just a collection of “rules my omnipotent creator wants me to live by” and nothing else…I suppose it might be important to read
every…
single…
word.
Good thing, it’s not.
Is it possible to be an illiterate Christian?
Must a blind Christian know Braille?
Could a Christian read the Cliff’s Notes and still be a good Christian?
Could a Christian read a “modern” translation of the Bible to fulfill the requirement?
How about an English version? Or must a Christian be fluent in Greek?
At what point is the line drawn? May a Christian rely on another person to:
(a) translate from the original Greek?
(b) translate from the florid King James language into modern English?
(c) read aloud the versions in (a) or (b)?
(d) summarize the key passages from (a) or (b) in written form?
(e) summarize the key passages from (a) or (b) in spoken form?
Or riddle me this: why would God, from whom all wisdom and knowledge emanates (according to his followers), want ignorance? How could anybody who is ignorant of His words possibly be called a disciple? Peter could be crucified upside down, Paul beheaded, Paul and Stephen stoned and other apostles and early followers delivered to all manner of massacre and torture and public death just to be worthy of calling themselves the followers of the Christ, and you people can’t even be troubled to pick up a book in an air conditioned building where you are in no physical danger to see what they said?
For the first time I’m getting a message directly from God himself. He says "
Fuck You, You Lazy Stupid Ignorant Bastards. The oysters in Lake Baikal and the fungus that grows in cow manure in the Mississippi Delta are more worthy to call themselves My children.
[/QUOTE]
He also tells me that Robert Blake offed her and Johnny Depp will win an Oscar in either 2006 or 2008.
The above should read “James and Stephen stoned” rather than Paul & Stephen (though even with the typo it is still inerrant- you just have to have faith).
Why would a just, beenvolent, and merciful God reject someone who can’t read?
Find out how small-cap stocks are going to do through the end of this year, would ya? I have some mutual fund decisions to make.