Cross-posted from great-debates:
Rick Warren greatly concerns me.
Horseshit doctrine and extremely irresponsible. Fuck that guy.
The guy’s one step away from Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell IMHO, a dangerous ideologue with bad doctrine preaching hatred. He’s the last thing that American Christianity needs as its public herald, and I’m frankly disappointed that people aren’t being harder on him.
Um, if they are progressive, they are kind of by definition not “across the aisle.”
If you think Warren’s support of prop 8 is extremist, you are out of touch with mainstream America. Prop 8 passed, by a decent margin, in one of the less conservative states. Supporting it makes him part of the majority.
From Freejooky’s
Yeah… cause everyone can objectively agree on what evil is.
I am honestly curious if the Warren’s of the world, who don’t seem unintelligent- they don’t listen or seem curious but they seem reasonably intelligent- really and truly don’t realize that many people see the U.S. as evil and Ahmadinejad (or whatever other Muslim leader is our enemy that day) as the righteous.
Of course I could never understand the chest thumping over Obama’s “will sit down to talks without preconditions” comment even if he made it exactly as quoted. You’re not saying that you’re going to acquiesce to anything, just that you’re going to treat another sovereign power as another sovereign power rather than making them show a sign of weakness to their own people and the international community before meeting with you, which absolutely no dictator is going to do, thought he might be convinced to agree to terms afterward.
I wonder about that too, especially since neither Hillary or McCain ever managed to get the least bit of political traction out of it. My best guess is that the Iran refrain was narrowcasted at Jewish retirees in Florida, hoping to scare them into thinking that Obama would hand over the country to Ahmadinejad.
Obama okaying this guy is indefensible, IMO. The gay community, who really pulled hard and ponied up for Obama, by the way, got stomped HARD in this election and he just strolled by and planted another one right in our faces. We are not part of his constituency as far as he is concerned, that’s pretty clear. “Taken for granted” doesn’t even begin to cover it.
I understand, but Obama isn’t putting Warren in his administration or appointing him to the Supreme Court. Warren isn’t setting any policy. He’s just giving a generic prayer at the inauguration.
The irony of this story is that a lot of right wingers are all pissed off at Warren for agreeing to give the invocation for a “baby killer” and a “queer lover.”
Yes, but really, as pointed out above, in this WHOLE FUCKING HUGE RELIGION-OBSESSED COUNTRY, he/Congress/whoever couldn’t find ONE religious-type entity who doesn’t piss off either? During this event which is supposed to unify the country - everybody - even including constituents he clearly takes for granted, he couldn’t find somebody, anybody, who doesn’t equate gay marriage with incest, polygamy and bestiality?* Really? Nobody?
*Warren does. I just saw him say it on Anderson Cooper.
If Obama wants to “reach across the aisle” to encompass hateful bigots, why doesn’t he just go ahead and have someone from the Ayrian Nation speak? Oh, I guess because being hateful toward gays is more acceptable than being hateful toward people with off-white skin color.
This isn’t just a stinging, hurtful slap in the face of gays, it’s also a slap in the face of women and anyone who is pro-choice. Warren doesn’t believe in abortion even in cases of rape or incest. He compared anyone who’s pro-choice to Holocaust deniers.
I don’t even really think that’s true. As contradictory as it may seem, Obama seems to be “against gay marriage, but against any legislation that would ban it”. If Prop 8 had said “Marriage should be between a man and a woman but we won’t stop gays from getting married too,” it would probably be consistent with Obama’s stated view. (Which, I agree with Diogenes, is mostly born out of political necessity.) But since it actually banned gay marriage, it’s not consistent with his view.
Exactly. It’s Bill Clinton all over again. Obama had no problem taking our money and hard work in order to get elected, now it’s time to turn his back on us and kick us in the balls. I’ve always had serious misgivings about Obama, but supported him anyway. That’s changing very quickly, and in my opinion the negatives are really starting to outweigh the positives. Not that he apparently gives a fuck, now that the election’s over.
He just saying a prayer, big fucking deal. How about you guys wait until Obama is actually in office before you trash him for abandoning you?
Yeah! If he opened with a prayer from the Koran, nobody would make a peep!
“When repairing a torn cloth, the first stitch always bears the most tension.”
-Me
Look, I’m no 'phobe but come on, gays, get over yourselves. Obama’s a Christian and a politician. Warren may not agree with the gay lifestyle but according to one of the Obamaniacs, “Obama and Warren agree on several issues, including advocating on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged and people who suffer from HIV/AIDS.”
Getting all outraged over this is every bit as ridiculous as right wingers getting outraged over the audacity of supporting gay marriage. Gays and Christians 1) will never go away and 2) will never agree on the marriage issue. Deal with it. And if you’re too one dimensional to get past someones opposition to ONE of your ideals, especially when he’s a champion of other values that you share, then you’re just as responsible for the division in this nation as They are.
Obama’s going to take heat because he’s sensible. It’s easy to rip a country in half the way Bush did, but it’s a lot harder to stitch it back together. And that’s what Obama’s got to do before anything else can ever change. He’s got to re-teach the US “tolerance.” And that means not hating conservatives as well as not beating up gays. Wake the fuck up, you sound just as hateful as Phelps.
You can’t be abandoned by someone who was never with you in the first place.
Obama spoke on this issue during the Q&A session after announcing more of his economic team this morning. I heard the comments on NPR as he spoke them. He said he had been invited to address Rick Warren’s congregation in the past, even with Warren knowing his firm stance on gay rights. He said he knows we have some strong disagreements among people in this country, but the way to address them is to include everyone in the discussion and to keep the lines of dialog open. Just as Rick Warren didn’t exclude Obama on grounds of his views on gay rights, Obama doesn’t feel it is right to exclude Rick Warren on grounds of his views on gay rights.
It was about as fair an answer as could have been hoped for.
Enjoy,
Steven
The conservatives orchestrated a political campaign to strip gay people of their civil rights, rights that had already been recognized as legal by the California Supreme Court. Gay people are fully justified for being furious at this atrocious act of political persecution.
“Just as hateful as Phelps”?
When did gay people hold a plebiscite to forbid fundamentalist Christians rto marry or to adopt children?
When did gay people picket the funerals of fundamentalist Christians?
When did gay people fire fundamentalist Christians from their jobs or evict them from their homes for being who they are?
Equating the struggles of gay people to protect their civil rights with the removal of those rights by right-wing bullies is an act of moral imbecility. You might as well call Martin Luther King "just as hateful"as Bull Conner.
I’ve said this before, but standing up for oneself as a citizen and as a human being is not intolerant. I will never accept that being “tolerant” means allowing myself to be regard as inferior. Moral resistance to persecution is not “intolerance”.
Oh well, at least we’re being stabbed in the back by our guy.
It’s pandering of the worst kind. I’m very disappointed in Obama for giving credibility to a religious nutjob for the sake of sucking up to the Christian right.
He also pointed out that there’s going to be a pro-gay preacher speaking as well (whose name I don’t remember) and he reiterated his own personal support for gay rights. The fact that he’s letting Warren give a prayer doesn’t mean that he’s suddenly going to reverse field on any actual policy issues.
So what, the Supreme Court is supposed to be the final word in these matters all of the time? That isn’t how our system is set up, and you know it.