Fucking intellectual cowards (fundamentalist Christian rant)

The BBQ Pit
1

I get so sick of the high and mighty Christian types (as opposed to nice, fluffy Christians), who are all set and ready to come down on anyone and everyone who isn’t just like them, particularly gays. How they’ll rant and rave about how gays are so evil, how we’re destroying the entire fucking world, how we’re the cuase of all of society’s ills… and then they always run away when asked to prove it. Or they whine like babies and complain that we’re attacking their beliefs.

Well Jesus Fucking Christ, you’re attacking us!

When you say gays are causing the decline of the American family, YOU’RE ACCUSING ME OF CAUSING THE DECLINE IN THE AMERICAN FAMILY!

When you say gays harm society, YOU’RE SAYING THAT ABOUT ME!

Do you not fucking realize this? Do you not fucking care? Do you not fucking know that this is why gay teens are constantly killing themselves (I tried it, my boyfriend tried it, and I knew one boy who did it)? You probably don’t give a shit about that either. One more fag to feed the fires of Hell, right? Yippe, burn 'em for Jesus!

They attack our character, they attack our dignity, and then they won’t back it up. They won’t stand their ground and say WHY. The most important question in any debate, when dealing with any discussion: WHY. They have no why, nothing but a cold heart and a hateful religion. So they hemm and haww. They repeat their assertions as if repetition imbues a statement with truth. That may work for the fucking Apostles Creed, but it doesn’t carry much weight with the world’s logical thinkers.

Look at the bigot twisting in the wind, refusing to show the intellectual courage to support his inane accusations in like this thread from prisoner6655321.

I get so sick of it. They don’t understand, and they don’t care. They don’t know how much it hurts to be called the things they call us – and how much it hurts even more when the person attacking your basic humanity won’t even tell you why.

I have to fight tooth and nail every day to not hate the Christian religion. To cling to what little belief I have left against the broad tide and strong winds of hate which drives that faith’s ship ever deeper into a sea of malice and bigotry. And people like prisoner are why.

I can handle people who disagree with me. I can handle those who are bigoted against me. But when they can’t even produce a logical reason for their bigotry, it’s more than I can stand. God, I love you, but I hate your fan club.

2

Because to admit that they are bigots would mean to admit they are acting in a very un-Christ-like (un-Christian) way. It’s a rationalization. And it’s all the worse because they have convinced themselves that it’s true. No one else, maybe, but definitely themselves.

3

Self delusion and denial are horrible things. They have it in spades. It’s like talking to brainwashed people, IMO.

And they think that they are hurting you for your own good–more bizarreness…

4

Spectrum, I am truly concerned – not for your fighting the good fight, but for what it seems to be doing to you. We lost Kirkland some years ago because he could not keep his ire under control. Take a chill pill, friend, and let some of us others without the emotional investment cope with him.

In the interim, knowing you to be a Christian yourself, let me repeat something I quoted to JayJay several years ago on a Christian board, because it fits:

“Blessed are you when men revile and persecute you, and say all manner of evil things against you falsely, for My Name’s sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who came before you.”

The Love that made the moon and stars knows you, knows your heart – and the hatemongers and sons of the Pharisees don’t speak for Him. Relax, and feel loved for a change. :slight_smile:

5

That’s why I took this to the Pit instead of putting it in the thread in question. I figured this was within-the-rules. If I’m wrong, I’d ask a mod to make the thread vanish like a Baptist in the Rapture.

Thanks. But didn’t most of the prophets die very unpleasant deaths?

6

Heh. I’ve pitted you, spectrum, over a Great Debate about a homophobe; I guess it comes full circle when I’m agreeing with you in a Pit thread about a homophobe in Great Debates.

This whole “all beliefs are created equal” nonsense is the worst sort of tortured, politically-correct, Orwellian nonsense, and it bugs the hell out of me whenever I see it. No, all PEOPLE are created equal. Some BELIEFS are pure garbage. And while we gotta treat people with respect and dignity, it’s perfectly appropriate to trash the garbage beliefs.

Daniel

7

I think there are two things that, if you keep it in mind, it might make you feel better. The first is that, when they say “gays harm society”, they’re not saying it about you. How could they? They don’t even know you. They’re not even saying it about actual gay people at all. They’ve created this bundle of stereotypes, an actual straw man, they call “a gay person”, in their mind, and they project all those negative traits on to it. Most of the people who rant against gay people don’t really know any gay people, or, if they do, don’t hold personal animosity against them, just like anti-semites with Jews, racists with blacks, and so on.

The second thing to remember is that you’re not responsible for other people’s stupidity, and what they say doesn’t have to bother you if you don’t want it to. If you let it get you upset, or if you let it make it question your own worth, that’s a victory for the homophobes. Let them say what they want, because you know they’re wrong, and they’re just speaking out of ignorance.

8

Spectrum, I was going to tell you all sorts of supportive things. Then I read Polycarp’s post, and now all I can say is: what he said!
Have a cool drink, and know that there are lots of us supporting you.

9

No no. You’re right in taking this to the pit. That’s what it’s here for. Thanks for taking your attitude to the punching bag.

Let me say that I’m sorry that my opinions have been termed as biggoted. I should just learn to keep my big mouth shut on this worldy liberal discussion board.

I’m sorry if I have ever inadvertantly said in one time or another (totally without intending to) that the ONLY thing responsible for the corruption of our world is same sex marriage or homosexuality. I thought that I repeatedly said that SSM lies along the path, but isn’t directly responsible for it. Sorry if in answering the questions posed to me gave the impression that I think that you who no doubt live hundreds or thousands of miles away from me, will directly negatively impact my family. I don’t think so.

Believe me, the last thing I want to be compared to is a pharisee. I’m doing some serious thinking right now. Not that I’m going to change my position on SSM or homosexuality, but in how I approach arguments such as this.

10

But they are saying it about me. They are saying it about everyone who is gay, and they know that that group includes me. Their ignorance doesn’t mitigate that when they accuse gays of defaming the American family, they are saying that about me. Everything that is said about gays generally is being said about me personally.

If I could make it not bother me, I would. But these putrid little bigots are in charge of this fucking country now, and they’re sharpening their knives with which to destroy the lives of gay people everywhere. In George Bush’s America, gays live under an aura of constant threat. Who knows when the next anti-gay law or anti-gay movement will come down from on high. Who knows who’s lives will be destroyed. No one. All we do know is that the entire situation is the fault of people like prisoner.

Knowing they’re wrong won’t let me be by my partner’s side the next time he’s in the hospital.

11

The people described in the OP are, simply put, on the wrong side of history. Our society is getting more tolerant of gays, not less, and I suspect the hold outs, numerous though they may be, realize this and are having a difficult time accepting it. In a few days, California’s Domestic Partnership Law takes affect. It’s not marriage, but it’s a big step in that direction-- something unimagineable even 10 years ago. Change is going to come slowly, but I just don’t see that there is any turning back at this point.

12

That’s the most sanctimonious lie of an apology I’ve read in a long time. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And this too is dishonest. Who claimed you said this? Are you so desperate for martyrdom that you’ll lie about what other people say about you in order to pretend that you’re misunderstood? That’s kind of pathetic. YOU’RE NOT A MARTYR.

Then don’t act like one. THAT’S what you should be doing some serious thinking about. Not:

Very nice. So your mind isn’t open to being changed, huh? Ever consider that maybe God is trying to reach you through this messageboard? Maybe Polycarp is here exactly so you can hear God’s message of love?

Do some deep thinking, but do it about everything, not just whether you should continue behaving in a cruel manner toward people on a messageboard.

Daniel

13

The two things I’ll take from this bullshit non-apology:

  1. Typical fundie shifting of the blame. It’s not your fault. No siree. Why, it’s them liberals on that “worldly” message board. They just ain’t got no respect for the God’s honest truth. Why, how dare they actually take my words at face value and expect me to back up my rhetoric with facts and logic?

  2. I note that you say that you don’t “want to be compared to… a pharisee.” I’m not comparing you to a pharisee. I’ll come right out and say it. You are one.

14

I think Polycarp is here so that we can all hear God’s message of love.

15

umm… That’s precisely what I’m thinking about. I don’t want to be seen as a pharisee, even satanists, and certainly a group so abused as homosexuals.

Sure! I appear to be the only open minded individual in this whole discussion board. I may be proud, but I’m not too proud to see God’s power. He can use anything to glorify Himself, even the Devil.

Cite. Please provide even ONE statement made by me that is directly cruel towards any people on this board (outside the pits). In fact, I am the one that was so cruelly attacked (and not just in the pits).

16

I’d prefer that you keep opening it. Ignorance can’t be fought if it can’t be found. As much as I’d like to excoriate you, I’m not going to do that, at least not here, not now. 'Cause I think you really are a good person who’s doing what you think is best. Unfortunetly, out of ignorance, this has led you to adopt a position which is unreservedly evil. And believe me, I do not use that term lightly. You have placed your beliefs - what you think might be true - over the well being of other human beings, who are being harmed on a daily basis by your beliefs and by your actions. That is an incontrovertible fact, and you need to recognize that. As much for your own sake as for ours. There is a cancer in your heart, even if you do not see it, and it is contagious. The hatred in spectrum’s OP here was bred in the posts you made in the other thread. Please, if you care about that thing you call a soul, and that man you call God, think about how your words and actions are causing pain and suffering to your fellow men, and change your ways.

17

Saying that gays are contributing to the destruction of the American family and American society is a cruel thing to say. Refusing to respond to questions about what should be done about the direct problems gays face that the marriages you would deny use would alleviate is cruel. Supporting bigotry, which you clearly do, is cruel.

And you’re the only open minded person on this board? Fuck you, dipshit. Fuck you. You’re open minded, but you won’t reconsider that you’re wrong about gays? You won’t consider that you’re wrong about homosexuality? When you wallow in ignorance, when your every fucking post makes you a pathetic joke of a member, you won’t reconsider?

You’re about as open minded as a Klansman, and about as compassionate to boot. Pharisee.

18

That makes no sense at all. Not a bitty little bit.

Jesus was all about the arrogance, wasn’t he? The whole, “I’m the only open-minded person on the messageboard!” really restores my faith in Christians, lemme tell you what. The rest of your post appears to be implying that Polycarp is the Devil, one of the more laughably obnoxious things I’ve seen around here. 'Course, maybe you meant something else–it didn’t make much sense at all.

So sad, poor martyr that you are. YOU ARE NOT A MARTYR. Your cite, good sir:

That’s just from your first post in the other thread that offers anything approaching an argument (I considered and rejected the “Sauerkraut destroys civilization” post as insufficiently meaningful). You just put two people getting married out of love on the same spectrum as people committing massacres, and used that to justify your vote against giving these two people some basic rights.

That’s cruelty, and Jesus would be ashamed of you even if you’re too damn arrogant to admit it.

Daniel

19

So if I’m not open minded, then who in the board IS?

20

We’ve got to have some new rules posted on this message board.

  1. Paedophiles should not start threads on Paedophilia.

  2. Fundamentalists should not start threads on homosexuality.

The first rule is unwritten but nevertheless enforced because it is a hot button issue for several mods/administrators.

Fundamentalist concerns about homosexuality is a hot button issue for a hell of a lot more people in this community.

The pain that results for many people like the spectrum from the words in question by prisoner is undeniable. Why then should it be permitted?

I’m sure prisoner’s heart is in the right place. He want’s to save gays.I’m sure that his beliefs require him to accept the pittings he gets in the same vein as the previously posted biblical quote provided to comfort spectrum ;

“Blessed are you when men revile and persecute you, and say all manner of evil things against you falsely, for My Name’s sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who came before you.”

Starting these threads is an utter waste of time for the fundamentalist. Permitting these threads is a lose-lose situation for all of us unless we enjoy the the confrontation. I don’t.