I am so fucking sick and tired of the same fucking homophobic "arguments"

[Sampiro]

On this board, on other boards, with family members in The Waking, in editorials, on the news media, it just never ends. You hear the same fucking anti-gay rhetoric from the Ideological Order of the Black Knight of the Indefensible Platitudes every fucking day, and you see them refuted every single time, and it never stops them.

Homosexuality is unnatural.

Well, it occurs in nature.

No it doesn’t.

Here’s proof.

Animals may have same-sex sex, but they don’t move in together and try to adopt children and buy Tivos, so it’s unnatural. Besides, animals don’t have anything to do with nature.

or…

Marriage is for having children.

But millions of people marry with no intention of having children or without even the ability to have children.

Don’t change a thing, marriage is for having children, except for when it isn’t, and even then it is.

or…

**God destroyed Sodom because of homosexuality. **

God seemed to be under the impression he destroyed them because they were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned.

And queer! He meant to say ‘and queer’! It’s clearly in the subtext. They wanted to rape them angels.

The phrase “to know” usually meant “to know”, and even if it didn’t there’s a difference between being gay and wanting to gang rape aliens.

Like I said, God destroyed Sodom because of homosexuality.

or

Marriage is unchanging.

So where are bride prices, dowries, polygamy, arranged marriages, child betrothals, etc. etc.

All them was one-man and one-woman, except for polygamy, which was one-man and one-woman per wedding, so it still counts, and what’s the difference twixt legalizing gay marriage and legalizing polygamy?

The differences are many: gay marriage is a simple extension of the rights of two people to legally bind themselves whereas polygamy is hopelessly complicated: which spouse would inherit Social Security or would it be equally, which would have the power of attorney in events of medical emergency or would it be majority vote [and how would you break a tie if there were an even number of spouses], homosexuality is an orientation while polygamy is a choice [nobody is born a polygamist], etc. etc etc ad nauseum

Like I said, no difference in legalizing gay marriage and legalizing polygamy, and next you’ll have to let people marry goats.

Gays are more likely to molest children.

Oh, don’t let me commence

or the oldie but still a goodie…

The Roman Empire fell because of gays.

The Roman Empire had been Christian for more than a century when it fell and its fall was an incredibly nebulous event with no single cause but thousands of little ones that have been debated for more than fifteen centuries by thousands of scholars with absolutely no clear resolution other than it was not due to one cause [and certainly not because of queers- the empire continued expanding and expanding in every direction it could whiz for centuries after Nero and Elagabalus and Hadrian].

Like I said, it fell because of queers.

And there are so many more, you all know the drill. And you can use the better logic, better facts and figures and statistics, quote better Scripture, employ all manner of documentable and indisputable evidence that totally slashes the tendons and eats the hearts of their arguments, and they keep going. “It’s only a flesh wound!”

I get so fucking tired of it, and the most irrifuckitating thing about it is that

**I CAN’T JUST LET IT GO

I CAN’T LET THE FUCKING FUNDIE (& OTHER) BIGOTS GET THE LAST WORD**

even though I know the fight to be futile in convincing the mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging ideological-catchphrase puking centrally-programmed Fundie-Fucking-Furbies of the Religious Reich that they are not only wrong in their interpretation of law and scripture but they are serving millionaire masters who would have helped handcuff Rosa Parks while screaming “The Sky is Falling!” at two women holding hands and who wouldn’t piss down the throats of their parishioners if the fires of hell consumed their uvulas unless there was a sawbuck, a vote or a photo-op in it for them.

JEEBUS BUT I GET SO FUCKING SICK OF IT AND YET IT’S LIKE CIGARETTES- A TOTAL MANIC BITCH TO QUIT.

I consider myself a lousy debater, and still I have to pick up my gladius and join the resistance to the best of my ability if only to atone for those who are too intimidated to fight or who would love to but don’t know the facts and words to use. But I just wish the mongoloids and the activists and all would just call a six month truce in which I don’t have to put up with the non-stop deluge of the same idiotic arguments again and again and again and again…

Weak rant, but… just had to vent.

[Dunderman]

No, this isn’t a weak rant, it’s a good and important one. I feel your pain and thank chance that I was born in a country where these people are nearly invisible, and certainly not in a position of power.

We’ll all just have to ride this one out. The world is waking up. In a few generations, their views will be in the dustbin of history and limited to crazies on the fringe.

[FinnAgain]

I was actually just going to bump this. Priceguy’s right. This may not be the greatest rant in the history of rants, but it’s a good one, and a necessary one, and a timely one. It’s disgusting that the image my home, my country, projects to the rest of the world is of an intollerant bible pounding culture which cares more about [sub]only one[/sub] religion than about the promise of our secular republic.

For what it’s worth, there are some of us who view people as, well, just people, and sexual orientation as merely a bit of trivia. Our national ideology seems to be lagging farther behind Europe than our dance music.

Strength and courage.

[griffen2]

Weak rant my arse! That shit sears like a nonagenarian curry-holics morning bowel movement That was fucking superb. And I’ll be submitting this

even though I know the fight to be futile in convincing the mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging ideological-catchphrase puking centrally-programmed Fundie-Fucking-Furbies of the Religious Reich that they are not only wrong in their interpretation of law and scripture but they are serving millionaire masters who would have helped handcuff Rosa Parks while screaming “The Sky is Falling!” at two women holding hands and who wouldn’t piss down the throats of their parishioners if the fires of hell consumed their uvulas unless there was a sawbuck, a vote or a photo-op in it for them.

to the SDMB hall of flames, (if that’s cool with you, of course).
On a more sober note, you simply cannot convince the fundamentalist fruit ‘n nutcases of anything that goes against their doctrinaire biblical literalism. They’re arguing with a completely different set of starting axioms and propositions to those used by the reality based community. They believe the bible is the exact and literal word of God (apart from the bits they don’t like, natch), that America is first and foremost a Christian nation and that it is their divine moral duty to save the unconverted from the mortal sin of happiness. Fuck them. 99.9% of them are morons and scum and if they’re devoting time and energy to churning out nonsensical, barely literate screeds attacking your very right to exist, the chances are very high that they’re already too far gone to be convinced. The best you can hope for when debating them is to convince any silent, possibly undecided onlookers who might be following the conversation.

For what little it’s worth, here’s a freebie from Corinthians which may help you in future encounters.

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
– I Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

If any female fundies are giving you shit, throw this quote at them and ask them how many times they’ve been disgraceful in Church. If it’s a guy, ask him how many times he’s disciplined his wife for the same. If it turns out he hasn’t…well, I’m sure you can take it from there

[fluiddruid]

Keep speaking up. Really. I was recruited by some very fundamentalist people in my church when I was a kid, but it was because of people like you that are out there poking holes in things that I wised up (and am now an agnostic atheist to boot).

Not every person is unwinnable.

[enipla]

It’s not a weak rant at all.

I don’t understand what it would be like to be gay. I can’t since I’m not gay.

My Wife is a runner. Marathons. She just took off this morning on a 4 hour training run. I don’t necessarily ‘get it’, but she does. I’ll be leaving to pick her up in about 3 hours. It’s not my thing. It’s hers.

That’s probably not a good comparison since she chooses to run. No one chooses to be gay.

But I don’t tell her she’s wrong to run since I don’t ‘get it’.

Silly, fearful people are afraid of things that they don’t understand. You may as well be afraid of rain or sunshine.

I believe that a Federal Judge just over turned an anti-gay marriage law in Nebraska. The 14th amendment was cited in the overruling. There may be hope for all of us.

[tdn]

@enipla

I believe that a Federal Judge just over turned an anti-gay marriage law in Nebraska. The 14th amendment was cited in the overruling. There may be hope for all of us.

Really? Well, that’s good news. You got a cite or something?

Sampiro, I have to disagree with your rant. Specifically the part where you called it a weak rant.

[enipla]

Really? Well, that’s good news. You got a cite or something?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7834478/

WASHINGTON - In the first time that a federal judge has struck down a state constitutional provision limiting marriage to heterosexual couples, U.S. District Judge Joseph Bataillon on Thursday declared void a provision of the Nebraska constitution that defined marriage as only between a man and a woman and that banned same-sex civil unions, domestic partnerships and other similar relationships.

Bataillon declared in his ruling that under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, Nebraska cannot ban same-sex marriages and civil unions.

The ruling may call into question similar provisions in other states’ constitutions.

Bolding mine. Good news. For everyone.

[EllisDee]

I think the “Marriage Is For Children” doctrine is more accurately portrayed as that the idea of marriage came about for the purpose of raising children. (I could be wrong.)

One could try to weasle out of the overwhelming evidence of straight married couples who don’t have or want children by saying they are subverting the original purpose/intent of marriage as well.

Just thought I’d throw that out there. If it has any relevance, perhaps you could hone the appropriate rebuttal.

Otherwise, carry on. Good rant.

[JRDelirious]

@tdn

Really? Well, that’s good news. You got a cite or something?

Don’t get too happy, I’m reading a paper and it sez here the court grabbed hold of that it went beyond marriage to other legal arrangements. And already some Pugs are claiming it’s proof you need a national Amendment

Sampiro, I have to disagree with your rant. Specifically the part where you called it a weak rant.
[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. There’s strength in sharing that which pains you.

[SteveG1]

It was a pretty good rant. I too am tired of the unmitigated gall of people who judge and hate someone else, and better yet, have a whole shitload of their own dirty laundry.

Gays molest children - Well duh, so do straights - even “pious preachers” do. Some don’t seem too picky about which gender they molest either. Is it some sort of “equal opportunity predation?” How about a certain church I was raised in, that condemns gays and yet hides and protects their own priests when they do it - and moves them around, so they can atttack even more children? And then refuses to hand them over to the cops (render unto Caesar)?

Gays caused the fall of Rome - All I can say is WTF. Rome OWNED the known western world. They fell AFTER they “got religion”. Was there a connection? Why not. If one side can invent fake theories, then so can we.

Sodom was nuked for gayness - No, they were nuked for pride, arrogance, inhospitality, and cruelty.

No gay animals in nature - Well, on the one hand all gays are animals that must be controlled (does that mean it does occur?). On the other hand, there are bi and gay animals. Bonobo chimps for example don’t care about gender, only about who is “interested”.

Hate the sin and love the sinner (while you try to outlaw, marginalize, and physically bash them). How about that no good mule fucker who wants all gays killed. Staying within your own species is evil. Raping the livestock is OK(?)

It’s immoral - Strictly speaking so are whoring, infidelity, divorce, and all the other things that are done by straight people.

But, no matter what counter-argument you have, it is a waste of breath. It will fall on deaf ears. Don’t waste your time.
These “people” don’t want to “save” anyone. They want to control and hate. They want to attack what they perceive as a safe and easy target. They really need to be put out of our misery.

[UnwrittenNocturne]

Sampiro, I have to ask - have you been forceably expose to that prick Gerald Allen? That would do it to me

[enipla]

But, no matter what counter-argument you have, it is a waste of breath. It will fall on deaf ears. Don’t waste your time.
These “people” don’t want to “save” anyone. They want to control and hate. They want to attack what they perceive as a safe and easy target. They really need to be put out of our misery.

It’s not a waste of time or breath. It will take time to remove those that hate for no good reason from society. But time and breath is our only ally.

Yep.

It’s horseshit.

The KKK gets more protection from the 14th than homosexuales do.

Total horseshit.

[enipla]

One could try to weasle out of the overwhelming evidence of straight married couples who don’t have or want children by saying they are subverting the original purpose/intent of marriage as well.

Well that’s it then. My Wife and I are going straight to hell. No kids. Just two rescued dogs and two rescued cats.

[EllisDee]

@enipla

Well that’s it then. My Wife and I are going straight to hell. No kids. Just two rescued dogs and two rescued cats.

I hope it didn’t read like I agreed with the position. I was merely playing Devil’s Advocate.

[Liz]

It’s not a weak rant at all. It’s needed and much appreciated by this gay person. You make me smile [especially the bit about it being like cigarettes – I’m currently contemplating quitting the smokes] and give me hope.

[enipla]

@Ellis Dee

I hope it didn’t read like I agreed with the position. I was merely playing Devil’s Advocate.

Sorry Ellis Dee. I meant to be sarcastic. Guess that didn’t come through.

There are reasons for marrige. Good ones. I think it would help the gay community as it helps the straight communty. Things may change in a hundred years but who knows.

I’m married because I love my Wife. I like being able to say that. No one would or could ever come between us. Not family, not friends, and not the government.

I like having a goal that superseads everything. It’s nice to have something that is everything.

For some, that doesn’t work out. For me and my Wife it does. I think it’s a good thing. I think that gay folks should have the same.

[SteveG1]

@enipla

Well that’s it then. My Wife and I are going straight to hell. No kids. Just two rescued dogs and two rescued cats.

Well, I guess it’s true then. Tolerance causes terrible things to happen. Dogs and cats are living together :eek: LOL

[Liz]

@SteveG1

Well, I guess it’s true then. Tolerance causes terrible things to happen. Dogs and cats are living together :eek: LOL

And if you let dogs and cats live together, what’s to stop dogs from living with kittens? Or cats from living with puppies?

Think of the baby animals, you deviant bastards. :mad:

[SteveG1]

So then CatDog isn’t a cartoon! It’s true! It’s true!