My point wasn’t that I don’t give a damn about gays having the right to state-recognized marriages(I’ve made it clear before that I am firmly against the bans). Personally I don’t think the state should have ANYTHING to do with marriage at all because I see it as a spiritual union that has fuckall to do with government. It’s really not that far away from granting rights to one Christian denomination while denying them to another.
I know that’s what people think is true, but how about this: changes like these, civil rights changes, require leadership. And they require that leadership to be courageous, and in Mr. Obama’s own words, audacious. And consistent. Perhaps even unpopular. Kind of like Lincoln during the civil war. Letting discrimination go, unremarked upon, or worse, implicitly endorsing it, is not progressive, is not courageous, is not audacious. Leaders were courageous and audacious and consistent on Obama’s behalf and it got him to where he is today: the leader of the free world. I absolutely expect no less from him, and I had hoped that he would find it insulting that anyone would. That is why I am disappointed and that’s why I think it does matter.
Again, I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘silence is acceptance’ or ‘you’re either with us or against us.’ It’s about showing respect for people who’s views are different from, and sometimes even in conflict with, your own.
It is history, We start off the ceremony with some religious nut chanting. One is as good as another.
I know, why don’t we stop having this superstitious nonsense at government functions? Might as well be asking Papa Smurf for a good rain season.
Inigo, nobody gets married or not because it’s “good for society”, at least not in this day in age. Apparently people DON’T want us to get married because they think it would be BAD for society somehow, or gives them the heebie jeebies, but we want to get married for the same reason you do: because we love another human being. People started “tolerating” gay teachers when they saw gay teachers. They got comfortable with their gay co-workers when they realized they had gay coworkers. They accepted their gay children when their children came out. People are still uncomfortable with gays in the military because, as far as they can tell, there aren’t any. And they aren’t ALLOWED to know if there are any. People are uncomfortable with gay marriage because there are no gay married couples. When there are, they will adjust, NOT the other way around. This is not about hate or fear or devisiveness, it’s about love. And anybody who says one person’s love (or skin color or ethnic heritage) is unacceptable or not as good as everyone else’s should not be chosen to introduce someone who is aspiring to be inclusive.
Upon preview, your last comment: respect someone’s beliefs are not the same as endorsing them. He can respect Warren’s right to his beliefs and have someone else speak. And it’s really difficult to respect someone’s beliefs when they want to affect what YOU do instead of just what THEY do. Don’t believe in eating pork? Fine, don’t eat any. Don’t make bacon illegal for everyone though.
If Mr. Obama is so insistent in embracing all viewpoints, even the ones which are controversial, will his next opportunity to invite a preacher to do an invocation or opening prayer be a preacher who preaches a message of separation of races and a return to slavery? No? Why not? It’s a different opinion, and one that is controversial, and shouldn’t we be embracing all viewpoints including the ones he disagrees with, the ones that are diverse, noisy, and opinionated?
Yeah, I don’t buy his stated reasons. This is about pandering to the religious right, and the GLBTs be damned. Thanks, man. Appreciate that.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I’ll continue to care about your rights, if you don’t mind.
Are you kidding? Right wingers will do their utmost very best over the next 4-8 years to derail Obama. Witness the efforts to tie him with Blago. Witness the flurry of lawsuits clogging up the system regarding his freaking birth certificate. Freeper types will NEVER accept Obama as president and will fight him at every turn. “Less likely”? Holy shit, are you serious? His meaningless gesture makes no difference whatsoever to neocon fundies, but it means something to those who didn’t get to fully enjoy election day, and now can’t fully enjoy Inaguration day.
That’s super duper of you, really, but let’s keep in mind that going off your nut because Obama won’t wish this chucklehead into the cornfield doesn’t do any good for anybody. My rights aren’t going to be effected one way or the other by letting this guy speak. On the otherhand, throwing a tantrum because Obama isn’t instituting loyalty tests for guests at his floor show doesn’t do wonders for the image of the left in general, or (in this case) the gay rights movement in particular. So as much as I genuinely appreciate your support, I’d appreciate it even more if it were quiet support.
Well, I’m just thankful that the American left is so totally devoid of that sort of mindless partisanship, sweeping generalizations, and kneejerk venom.
In other words, you don’t want an American president, you want a Democrat president, and anyone who doesn’t agree with you can go fuck themselves. I’d point out that that is precisely the attitude that led to so many failures in the Bush administration, but somehow, I don’t think that would do much good. You don’t want someone who can do better than Bush, you just want someone who can fuck things up in your favor for a change, and now that it appears you’re not getting that, you’re throwing a hissyfit.
Me? I’m just glad we got the candidate I voted for, and not the candidate you voted for. I don’t think we could survive another four years of your sort of politics.
I want someone who has compassion for people whose rights are stomped on. If that’s a bad thing to want, then so be it.
And that is who we believe Mr. O to be. But charging onto the stage and thrashing about with his whuppin’ stick isn’t going to make anything better. I’m no fan of Warren, but neither am I a fan of political oversteering that marginalizes The Right for the next 8 years. I think Obama’s dead on. Realistically the only change I see him bringing in the next two years is reversing a good deal of the political polarization in this country. That’s going to mean, in some cases, shaking The Devil’s hand in order to get him to row in the same direction as everyone else.
Personally, I think Obama has gone from “reach across” to “reach around”.
Well, at least he’s got the common courtesey for that. Bush didn’t even spit on the hole to lube it up.
Try that with the Devil, and he’ll take the opportunity to yank you out of the boat into the water. There’s no point in trying to compromise with these people. They are neither reasonable, nor trustworthy, nor willing to compromise, nor rational. The Democrats keep trying, and they keep getting screwed over because of it. They have to break down and realize that the Right is implacably hostile to them.
Reaching across the aisle to one more liar in the name of the Lord? Reaching across the aisle to someone who’d assassinate some figurehead in the name of Christ?
That’s freakin’ crazy. It’s one thing to reach out to an honest adversary. But the thing to do with liars and hypocrites is marginalize them.
I have just removed my Obama yard sign that I’ve had up since June. I no longer support him or whatever agenda he pretends to stand for. If he wants to make nice with people who insist on denying me my rights, he can do it without my blessing.
I realize this makes me a narrow-minded, bigoted ideologue.
Oh, Waaaaah! Obama won’t be mean to people I hate. Maybe the racists were right after all. Waaaaah!
Every single Republican is not pure evil. Some are, but a lot aren’t. Obama is doing well to approach them, much as I disagree with the specific thing he is doing in this case.
So ? The leadership is evil *; the organization as a whole is.
- Not “pure evil”; you won’t find that in the real world.