Background info: I go hunting here about 6 times a year (they have rotating seasons) for rabbit, fox, roe-deer, deer, elk and boar. I mainly borrow my father-in-law’s rifles (one very nice Merkel combo 7.65/12g, one nice Remington .222). I was thinking about getting a rifle for myself when I travel back to Denver this summer (prices are 33% cheaper in the US).
Maybe it’s the cowboy from my childhood, but I have always wanted a lever-action rifle. I loved my friends 30-30 Winchester and thought it was a rifle that would last forever and a day. While browsing Winchester, Marlin and Savage Arms sites I saw that they also sell the rifle’s in pistol calibers- .44 mag, .357 mag. and I thought “Hey! Maybe I can buy one of those and then someday match the caliber with a handgun! Then I’d only have to buy one type of bullet.”
I can’t find the stats on pistol caliber shot out of a rifle (I’m assuming they would have more power due to increased acceleration). Nor do I know what the drop would be over 100 yards (which is around the max distance I would shoot here- thick forests and all.). I know that I would have to buy soft bullets (lead-tipped, not full-metal jackets) for hunting, but they do exist.
Think I can drop a 400 pound boar at 100 yards with a .44 mag shot out of a 20 inch barrel?
Here’s a few sites I’ve visited on hunting, IMHO, I think that boar at a 100 yards with a flat tipped round may be pushing it. My Dad hunted boar in Hawaii and Turkey and his favorite one-shot-kill was a Browning in 7mm mag. From anecdotal evidence, the .44 mag in a lever action is pretty good for deer out to 125 yards, but I think the optimal range for this caliber is inside 100 yards. I’ve got a .44 Super Redhawk, and I’m planning on doing the exact same thing, get a Winchester lever action for the 100 yd shot.
Thanks! That guy says that they work fine for boar in wooded areas. Just no long range stuff. BUT, I wonder if I can get these exact bullets. I’ll need to check into what grain bullets they sell here.
Woo hoo, a favorite topic of mine, lever action rifles in “pistol*” calibers.
The .44-40 was popular for decades and took a lot of game over the years and it’s much less powerful than .44 mag. You won’t have much drop to worry about out to 100 yards which is the practical limit anyway.
That said there are a lot of lever gun options since cowboy action shooting is so popular. IMHO the modern Winchester '94 is the least desirable of anything out there because of the clunky action. On the plus side it’s modestly prices, under $300, and the popular 16" barrel “trapper” versions are extremely compact. I had one. Sold it. Don’t regret selling it.
The Brazilian made Rossi replica of the Winchester '92 is anothe good choice. It’s strong enough for .44 mag and a much superior action for pistol calibers. If you want to spend a little more the Winchester reissue of the '92 made by Miroku in Japan have outstanding fit and finish. I’ve got one in .44-40 and thikn it’s the most quality gun I’ve ever owned. I think there is a run out now in .45 Colt through Davidson’s. I have seen both Browning and Winchester versions of the Miroku in .44 magnum but not in current production.
If you want major cool factor look at a repro Yellowboy, Henry or '73 by Uberti. The downside is that the Henry toggle action is not strong enough for magnum pressure levels. IMO the '73 is the finest lever action rifle ever made. I’ve got a Navy Arms/Uberti in .44-40 and it’s my primary competition rifle. Full power black powder loads are not wimpy by any standard.
The Marlin '94 is worth a look too but I’m not a big fan of them. You may really like the side eject and it’s available in magnum calibers.
*The .44-40/.44WCF is a rifle caliber as it originated in the’73 Winchester but Colt adopted it for the single action army and it quicly became the most popular civilain caliber since a cowpoke could have pistol and rifle but only have to worry about one kind of ammunition.
Just to give a contra opinion here, you list Elk in your list of animals you hunt. Personally, if I were undertaking the expense of an elk hunt I would not want to limit myself in range and killing power to a .44 magnum. As appealing as the ‘one bullet’ idea is, it really isn’t that big a deal to load or buy two different boxes of ammo, and in any event the round you use in a revovler will likely be different from what you want for the rifle anyway, so you will still end up with multiple ammo types.
You can’t go wrong with a .30-06. It will kill just about anything in N. America (maybe not ideal for big brown bears) you can get cheap plinking ammo in every sporting goods store, plus you can get a wide variety of premium ammo with top notch bullets. It is available in lever action, if you must, or just about every possible bolt gun in the country. It is not too hard on the shoulder, so you can shoot it alot without getting a flinch. Basically, if you are looking for a one rifle solution to hunting in N. America, the .30-06 is it.
Should have mentioned that one big draw back to the lever action is that it limits you to round tip bullets, so you wouldn’t get the max versatility out of the .30-06. Still, I would much rather shoot that boar/elk/deer with a 220 grain round nose out of a lever .30-06 than with a .44 mag @ 100-150 yards.
ok, last one I swear. Just noticed your location, so scrap all that stuff about N. America and .30-06, as I have no idea what the availability of .30-06 is in the Czech Republic. Still, everything you can say about the .30-06 goes for the .308 (aka 7.62).
Rhum, Yeah, a .308 is the load of choice here. I’d wouldn’t mind to get one of those either. Huge variety of bullets here.
Padeye Rossi? Really. Cool, they sell those here for cheap (comparatively). I could probably get one for $500. (Which is around the price I’d pay for a 10/22 here!!!)
I don’t like your plan at all. You seem to think that the longer barrel of the rifle will make a standard pistol cartridge into a killer hunting round. This is not the case at all. There are some significant differences between a handgun round and a rifle hunting round. Pistol cartridges use extremely fast buring powder in their rounds. Rifle cartridges use longer burning powder to make use of their much longer barrels. Firing a handgun round in a hunting rifle does not mean that it will perform anywhere close to a rifle round. The powder will burn out within a few inches of travel in the barrel and you will not have much better performance than you would in a pistol. That is not fair to larger game that you are hunting especially at longer distances.
Lever-action rifles have their place. However, they are meant to be used with a (much more powerful) rifle cartridge such as the 30-30. Even then, range is limited to a little over 100 yards. If that is what you need, then that is a fine solution. Otherwise, look into a more versatile round with a much longer range like the 30.06 or .308 as other posters suggested.
There is a huge trend right now in “camp guns” for people to have a rifle and pistol in the same caliber, and I’m still unsure about how I feel about it, only because there are calibers like 9mm and .40 being offered. What the point is behind a 9mm rifle, I have no idea, but if that’s what people want, good for them.
That said, considering the fact that you are an actual hunter and will be going after large game, don’t go any less than .44 mag. (I actually think a .41 mag is a wonderful hunting cartridge, but it’s hard to find in handguns, much less rifles… very overlooked). When I was growing up, the most popular cartridge in my area for deer and black bear next to a 30-30 was a .44 mag Ruger auto. I had one and loved it. As long as you are in an area like you describe, where your longest shot might be 100 yards, a .44 mag will be a great caliber. Just don’t go below that.
Personally, I don’t like lever actions. I’m very partial to bolts, but I’ve had a Winchester '94 (and share Padeye’s opinion. Very clunky and weird feeling. I’ll never own another one). I’ve also had a Savage 99 in .375 and a Marlin 336 in .444. Both were really nice rifles, and the actions were great. Wonderfully smooth. I haven’t owned, but have tried, and loved the Ruger 96/44. You can find those for about $450. Give them a feel in your search. They aren’t fancy or traditional looking, but a very well made rifle.
I’m a bit curious about your Elk reference though. I know that in many areas on your side of the swamp that an Elk is a very different animal than what we in the U.S. call Elk. If you mean your Red deer or something similar, great. If you mean that you want to come to Denver and hunt Elk/Wapiti with a .44 mag, I’ll gladly slap you with your own underwear a few times.
Stick with a .44 mag and you’ll have a good hunting rifle. Beyond that, find a rifle that feels good to you, with an action that you like, and you’ll be fine. As long as you aren’t going beyond 100 yards.
Actually flat or hollowpoint bullets are preferred for safety in a tube magazine and and for handgun calibers that’s an advantage for hunting as the bullet tends to dump more kinetic energy into the target. The classic Kieth bullet, a modified semi-wadcutter may not feed smoothly in a lever rifle but a round nose flat point is very close.
.30-06 operates in a whole different ballistic envelope than a .44 mag like the OP was talking about. I’m not aware of any 30-06 rifle with a tube magazine anyway so it’s a moot point.
The only one I saw up close looked to be about the same size as a female elk from Colorado (maybe slightly smaller). They also get the darker neck/lighter body shades that traditional elk do. From what I saw, and for ease of use, I say elk. Mainly because if I said “hey there are some elk and some deer on the other side of the hill- the deer are in season”, you would go over the hill and be able to tell which was which and be able to shoot appropriately. Now, could a Jelen and Elk reproduce? Dunno. But I’m pretty sure a Jelen and a Deer could not.
There are actually quite a few different types of animals here that I’ve never seen. I’m used to antelope, white tails, bighorns, elk and moose. Here they have:
Antelope: don’t know the Czech word, never seen one, just pictures.
Srnec: What I called a roe-deer, 50Lbs max. Looks like a dog with horns. Smallest damn things.
Danek: Large bambi with the antlers of a moose.
Mufflon: Bighorn sheep analog with brownish-redish fur and thinner antlers.
Jelen: Smaller than US elks, but close enough for government standards.
Another deer that I don’t know the name of: I think this might be the red deer you are talking about. It’s a lot redder than Jelen are, plus has traditional deer antlers. Not found where I hunt, mainly near the Austrian and German borders.
Plus they have BIG boars, Slovakia has bears, and I think there might be another deer-type around here somewhere. Then go North to find the moose and raindeer.
OK, gotta go…Still thinking about the pistol cartridges, but I am leaning towards a .308…It would be much more flexible in the long term, no matter where I am.
This was the lever .30-06 I was thinking of earlier. Browning BLR Now that I look it up, it does have a box magazine. I am not sure that anyone else makes a lever gun in .30-06, so I think you are right, there are no tube magazine lever action .30-06s. In any event, I should have been more specific on bulet shape, my point really was just that the tube magazine and lever action is a bit limiting in what you can do.
Personally I say go for the lever gun in .44 mag, and then get a nice bolt .308 to go with it. You can never have too many guns.
(Empahais mine) Now that’s a statement not subject to debate
Tomcat, I may sound down on the Winchester '94 but that’s because I use lever rifles in competition so I’m shooting a couple hundred rounds a month sometimes. What is unacceptable to me may be no biggie to you.
You can get one cheap, Big 5 has them all the time for $280. The only two mods I suggest are taking two coils off the mainspring and a leather or cloth wrap on the lever. The spring mod slightly reduces the initial cocking pressure as you open the lever and the wrap keeps you from banging your knuckles so hard. When you shoot it cycle the lever fast, full and hard. Short stroke it and you’ll hate it.
Big 5 allagedly has a simiar Marlin that will have a much smoother action but I have yet to see one.
