He has been lying on the ground being soaked by freezing water for two hours. Why is there even a question of whether he is in danger? Because he is a bum? If he were not a bum, would he be in danger? Do we even know he is a bum, or are we assuming it because he is motionless on the ground? Wouldn’t you say that, on average, folks who live on the street are in poorer health than those who do not, and therefore in more danger when exposed to such conditions? If the OP thought that this person was not a bum, would we even be having this discussion?
You can relax, friend. He’s gone now.
From the OP in the other thread:
The man in distress obviously is not in a position to make proper decisions for himself. Is he drunk? Hurt? Stroking? Having a seizure? In a coma? Meditating?
WHO KNOWS? BUT HE NEEDS HELP!!
Contrapuntal is right, and in the interest of keeping things simple, I nominate him to get the address and report this incident. Rigamarole is there a way you can get the location to Contrapuntal?
Not gonna happen. From the sociopath’s OP –
Somewhere in Canada there’s a responsible bloke who took action after seeing a bum under a park bench totally passed out drunk and probably saved his life.
Does it make a difference that that drunk was Lieutenant-General Roméo Alain Dallaire, OC, CMM, GOQ, MSC, CD, B.Sc, LL.D. ?
If Rigamarole is truly reaching out to a message board for moral direction, that sort of alienation has a pathos of its own and should be responded to the same way we’d respond to a person lying in a puddle of water.
Are you looking to us for reaction of validation, Rigamarole?
Well then, everything worked out just fine, didn’t it? All’s for the best in this best of all possible worlds!
That should be “…looking to us for reaction, or validation?”
Well you can sleep well tonight.
FWIW, I think that posting on the SDMB that you think someone may be dying on your lawn and you cannot be bothered to call the police, but continue to debate the merits of doing nothing…I think that is a BANNABLE OFFENSE!
I cannot call someone a troll without the wrath of SDMB raining down, but I can chat merrily away defending my lack of action while someone may be dying on my lawn ?
I call for **Rigamarole’s ** head!
Because I don’t know (or didn’t, before the other thread) what specific conditions were necessary for hypothermia. It was “even a question” because I didn’t know, and I said I didn’t know.
At least we care enough to check on Rigamarole’s state, even if it is mental. I haven’t started poking him a with a stick yet; I’m trying to determine if his soul is still with his body.
You didn’t behave well at all. If you had started an OP with something like, “Do I bug this guy or let him sleep it off?” that would be a different kettle of fish. As it is, you showed that you knew there was a potential problem, yet you did nothing.
It’s one thing to be oblivious. It’s another to be aware and yet not care.
I don’t know what I’m looking for exactly, but I have a past history of people who think they’re helping me only causing me more problems, and that has surely colored my attitude toward a situation like this.
I truly don’t believe that man wanted anyone’s “help” at the time (especially the police’s), and I already feel validated by the fact that he has now left and was not, in fact, dead. I was obviously being more concerned than I needed to be. We take care of ourselves. I always have, and when I really need help I seek it out myself. There’s no reason I would expect anyone to act differently.
You are right. And I felt this way from the start, but I was overwhelmed with anger at the immediacy of the situation.
For the record Rigamarole, i apologize for my unkind words. There is a reason for your actions that I cannot fathom.
Question: Would you make the 911 call in a similar situation, having seen the “common” reaction, or does the way this incident played out make you less likely to do so? Keep in mind, the guy could’ve been removed by the authorities while you were composing posts, and taken to hospital because someone else made that call. But even if he left on his own power, the circumstances under which you saw him didn’t give any indication he was capable of doing that.
Let me elaborate:
I live exactly two blocks from the toughest neighborhood in Cincinnati. Six years ago, the shop windows in my building were broken during our famous race riots. I’ve personally rousted a group of crackheads who were squatting in our basement. On Christmas Eve, somebody broke in to take a dump on the ground-floor crapper and steal the old TV set that was in the laundry room.
I’m regularly hit up for change not ten feet from my front door, often agressively. I’ve yelled at bums who were taking a leak against the side of the building directly below my windows. There’s a drug bodega in the middle of the block and a gang of thugs who own one corner. In five years, I’ve had my car broken in to twice, the fender kicked in once, the driver’s side keyed down the entire length, and a mirror snapped off (that’s why I always buy shitty cars.) This summer, I caught a guy breaking in to a neighbor’s van in broad daylight, with his legs kicking straight up in the air through the passenger side window.
Know what? I still call the cops whenever I see trouble. If it’s just a noise complaint, I’ll call the non-emergency number. If it’s a crackhead beating up his hooker girlfriend in the street, or a bum passed out in a doorway in a puddle of his own piss, I call 911.
I like living here. I’ve got great set of neighbors, and there are a ton of interesting places to eat and shop. I love only having to walk a couple of dozen yards to the place where I work.
The only way this place is ever going to get any better is if I do what I can to make sure that cops don’t ignore it. Sometimes they do something, sometimes they don’t, but every single call I make to dispatch or 911 gets logged, so at least I’m doing my part to make sure their statistics are accurate and they can’t pretend there’s no problem.
Every single person who lives on my block, from the artistes, to the gay couples, to the illegal immigrants, and yes, even the old winos, is a human being, and they deserve every ounce of compassion and empathy I can spare. To not take the ten minutes to make a call when you see somebody possibly dead or dying on your doorstep is beyond callous - it’s actively deciding to make your neighborhood a shittier place to live.
Fuck you and your shitty attitude, asshole.
Once again you add words. Who said anything about the specific conditions for hypothermia? Are you asking me to believe that, before today, if someone had asked you whether lying on the ground in freezing water for two hours was dangerous, you would have said “I don’t know”? You have already indicated in this thread that you are aware that someone can be “in danger from the cold.” Is it that you do not associate “freezing” with cold?
If you had a child, and she were lying in freezing water for two hours, would you call the library to get the facts on hypothermia, or would you dry her off and try to get her warm?
If someone is unresponsive, they are in danger. That’s considered a medical emergency!
A friend of mine (my running partner) was pissed when she saw two groups of people just step over an old man sprawled across the sidewalk because they assumed he was “a passed out drunk”. My friend has first aid training. When the guy didn’t respond to “Sir, are you feeling okay?”, she yelled at him, poked him and finally pinched him to test his consciousness, as she was calling 911, on her cellphone while checking his vitals.
While she was waiting for the ambulance some “helpful” people came by and said “It’s okay. He’s breathing.”… No, it wasn’t okay. It turned out that the little old man had a stroke, and there is no telling how long he’d been lying there while people assumed he was just a “drunk sleeping it off.”
:mad:
And just so you know, even if he had passed out from booze, if someone is so drunk/stoned that they are completely non-responsive, you still dial 911 because they could die! If someone is getting sprayed by a sprinkler on a cold day or night and doesn’t seem to notice it one bit or even move… That should make you worry!
You don’t need to go to the length that my running partner did. You have no obligation to do something that frightens you or that you are not comfortable doing. But there is no good reason, NOT to call the cops or EMS, if you suspect someone is unresponsive. Call 911 and let someone else decide if it’s an emergency!
How would you reach out for help if you were unconscious, in need of medical attention?
That is very, very sad. I mean, it’s good to look out for yourself, absolutely. You shouldn’t be wandering around expecting everyone in the world to act as crutches for you. But I sincerely hope that if you’re ever in a situation where you need help but can’t seek it out yourself, you find yourself surrounded by people with more regard for their fellow man, and more empathy, than you have.