What the fuck is your exact problem? The specifics of hypothermia have to do with HOW SOMEONE WOULD DIE BY GETTING COLD.
Your question doesn’t contain the same information as the OP. I reacted, and questioned, the specific information in the OP.
As far as I know, yes. If I’m wrong, I would be happy to learn what the other dangers are, specifically.
If the kid that I don’t have said she was cold, I’d dry her off. Did the “bum” say he was cold?
Maybe. As I’ve said. Maybe. MAYBE maybemaybemaybe.
I know it’s rare on the Dope, but I admit when I don’t have information. I would have thought that maybe it could be dangerous. Maybe. I didn’t know, so I said I didn’t know. What the flying fuck do you want from me?
I don’t understand your hard on against jsgoddess. She (?) did not understand the risk factors for hypothermia and said so in post #21 of the other thread.
I answered in post #28. She acknowledged my response in post #30.
This board is supposed to be about fighting ignorance, not berating people because they do not have the knowledge that you have. jsgoddess realized that she did not have some knowledge and asked about it. And you keep giving her crap because she did not already have this knowledge.
About 20 years ago, I did not know that much more than jsgoddess about hypothermia. I had a boss that told me about getting hypothermia on a hike in 70 degree weather. It rained, he had no coat, and cotton clothes. By the time he got back to his truck, he could barely put the key in the ignition due his body shaking so bad. That is when I learned about hypothermia in mild temps.
I’m glad that your knowledge from this subject came from the womb, others here had to learn one way or another.
I think you owe jsgoddess an apology.
Like they say, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Wow. Just…wow. There’s been a big stink on the DC local media this past year over a guy who was found stumbling on the street; the cops assumed he was drunk, called an ambulance, which didn’t bother to show up for nearly an hour, and the guy died.
Turned out he was a reporter for the New York Times who had been mugged not far from his own home. Hewas not a bum. He was not drunk. He did not receive the treatment that a reasonable person should receive – just like you, Rigamarole, you shithead.
What happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt that maybe he’s not just a bum or a junkie, and that maybe he needs help, and that a 30-second call to 911 to report him would be so hideous an act? Who are you to play God and decide that he’s not worth being even checked out to see whether he actually needs help?
I don’t mean to keep harping on this, but it is something that was in my first aid course way back when: Don’t approach someone or touch someone if you are not comfortable doing so. You do what you can, but you are under no obligation to physically involve yourself in an emergency if you are concerned about your personal safety. If you think someone needs help, but you don’t think you’re up to it, just call emergency services.
I’m not going to fault Rigamarole for not wanting to get near the guy. We all have our limits when it comes to our sense of personal safety. Bad things can happen to good samaritans. That’s why you call the cops if you think something isn’t right.
My running partner felt that approaching what appeared to be an unconscious old man on a busy sidewalk in broad daylight was reasonably safe, and when there was no response, she felt safe enough to touch him to check his vitals and assess his level of conciousness. She has stated flat out that she would not have gotten close if it had been night time or if he looked younger/stronger (she’s a small female). She admitted that she had been rather scared leaning in really close to listen for breath sounds, and was relieved that he was breathing because she didn’t want to have to do CPR (but said she would have). CPR would have been getting close to her limit when it comes to how brave she could be in that emergency.
This isn’t that thread, is it? I am calling bullshit on her because I do not believe her. I do not believe that she has never stuck her toe in a pool that is F 75 and jerked it out because the water was too cold. I am calling bullshit because it is just common sense that lying motionless in freezing water for two hours is bad for the human body. I am calling bullshit because she is trying to shift the discussion away from “dangerous” to “hypothermia.” Her defense of Rigamarole is based on the asumption that there is no way to really know whether lying motionless in freezing water for two hours might be bad, when any fool would know that lying motionless in freezing *air *for two hours is bad. I am calling bullshit because she suggested that lying motionless in freezing water for two hours might just be a personal lifestyle choice. Everything she said has been special pleading, and special pleading is bullshit.
Like I said, I’m not buying it.
The discussion is not about hypothermia, it is about whether a reasonable person would perceive potential harm to a person who is lying motionless in freezing water for two hours, and whether, absent any other knowledge, a call to 911 is on order. It is not a science test, for crying out loud. I do not specifically know why drinking radiator fluid is bad for someone, but that lack of knowledge does not prevemt me from seeing the potential harm in it.
This is why I fucking hate society sometimes. Bums, hobos, dregs of society, whatever label you want to plaster them with, are human fucking beings. They’re not even criminals in any significant way yet so many people treat them with utter contempt. Why? Why is their very existence found so offensive? What is it that they did besides fall upon ultimate hard times? (I am ignoring those who are homeless by choice, who I would wager number fewer than the ones who’d get off the streets if they had the option) Is it because they’re all drunks? They have poor hygiene? A lack of education? Who the hell are you to judge them practically sight unseen, even if the person is homeless, which you pointedly avoided even attempting to ascertain? Jesus fucking Christmas. If I see someone in that condition, especially under circumstances that should otherwise have woken them up, I’d be on my cell calling the authorities as soon as possible, and I’d tell them to call in the paramedics just in case. Why wouldn’t I? It costs me absolutely nothing (except maybe a few cell phone minutes depending on the time of day) and isn’t going to take much of my time. Is your time so ridiculously valuable that giving up a small portion of it to be a good samaritan is going to break the bank? Or are you really so morally bereft that you just don’t give a damn? Come on. Seriously. It’s a complete no-brainer. It doesn’t matter one iota what the man’s residential status is. It’s another human being like prostrate on the ground being soaked to the core by freezing sprinklers, possibly even dead or dying. And if he wasn’t dead yet, every second you wasted debating with yourself over whether you should call the cops or just let him rot is another second closer to death he drew.
I suppose it was just that much easier to assume he was dead and let someone else deal with it. What a great way to go through life it must be to ignore everything that does not directly concern you whatever the consequences and no matter how easy it would have been to call in some help – even anonymously from a pay phone. I guess we should also be so apathetic.
Oh, please understand, I’m not being accusatory with respect to you or your posts, I do understand fully that you would have attempted to rouse him. It is just a shame that Rigamarole did not.
The scene left enough of an impression on Rig that he posted about it. If a person’s gut feeling says “something about this is not right,” then it is okay to go with that feeling and call someone whose job description includes assessing situations to determine if there is an emergency or not.
I’m not going to fault him for not wanting to touch the guy either. I wouldn’t want to touch him either (it was, however, Rig who brought up the notion of poking with sticks in his OP).
I am going to fault him for being such a complete creep that he not only passed this human being once, he passed him again after two hours and did nothing either time and then assumed he was all right based on seeing the person in a different position when he has no idea what happened to get the person into that new position.
In my community, you can call the police and ask them to conduct a welfare check on an individual who may be in distress. You don’t have to give your name.
I’m not a person who can perform a medical evaluation, nor am I a person with adequate personal protection to “poke” or otherwise attempt to rouse someone I don’t know. I am a person who can call those people. I would hope that if that were a friend, colleague, or relative of mine someone would call the police rather than assuming that he was a “bum” or somehow deserved to be lying on the street. That’s not for me to assess. What I can tell you is that people do get intocicated, and people also have strokes, get mugged, have reactions to medication, have Alzheimer’s, etc.
My father had a massive heart attack and was helped by strangers who were concerned about him. Fortunately he was able to give some account of himself. If nobody had seen him until he was unconscious, I’d hate to think that they would have just left him there. If they had, it’s very clear that he would have died.
I have to agree that if the water did not rouse the guy, then he was in some serious trouble, if not necessarily from the water, then from whatever condition caused him to be lying there.
Isn’t dousing someone with cold water a common way to attempt to rouse them?
FYI, I just saw an episode of “I Shouldn’t Be Alive.” 4 men had to ditch their plane in the Sea of Cortez. Even though the water temp was 80 degrees, all of them risked hypothermia because water depletes heat from your body quicker than air.
The bum’s coat probably served as an insulator, but it would have to be one hell of an insulator to keep your body at 98 degrees on a 67 degree day…
Yup. They rank right up there with dead guys on the lawn. Life *can *be a bitch sometimes, can’t it? Thank God there are urbanites around to remind us what is *really *important. Wouldn’t want to lose perspective.