Just for the record, I unequivocally believe that the OP should have called for help. I am just trying to establish that there is very often a difference between ‘should’ and ‘do’ and that this isn’t an issue with two sides consisting of perfect Samaritans who abide by a perfect ethical system versus fucked-up sociopaths who skin puppies.
This thread has been weighing on my mind because a situation formally similar to the one described in the OP happened to me yesterday. I was on the train, sitting next to a little girl and a man. The man was acting sort of oddly, making a loud series of jokes to her like “if I wasn’t your real daddy, would I have bought you all those Christmas presents?”-- saying things along those lines that, were I a dad, I think I wouldn’t say in public for fear of having them be misinterpreted. On the other hand, being socially unaware isn’t a crime. Nonetheless, I got a very sick feeling. If something bad was going on, I didn’t want to be the guy who stands by and lets it happened. I wondered if I should call 911 after getting off the train. However, this was based merely on some strange comments and a very uncomfortable feeling (I think the fact that our society values both analytic decision-making and the ‘gut instinct’ can make fast decisions very confusing) and accusing someone of such a thing is very major. Regardless, I took a picture of the man on my cameraphone and write down the stop he got off at. Getting off the train, the man joined up with his presumed wife and another kid who strongly resembled them. When I got home later I checked missing children reports online and none of them matched up, thankfully. I think I did the right thing by trying my best to carefully toe the line between immediate and possibly harmful action and pathetic inaction. Sometimes we can make a situation out to be much more than it is as a result of our own sense of drama.
I know I had a point going into this story but I’m not sure I remember what it is now. :smack: It’s certainly not the same as the situation in the OP because that didn’t really have any possible harm to the subject if action is mistakenly taken. I guess the point is that I’m ashamed that sometimes I might not take action, but yesterday I did. I think I also just needed to tell this story to someone because many of the people I know would probably think it was crazy and over-dramatic. Sorry if this was self-indulgent.
I’ll probably regret this but I think its a good question for some of the posters in this thread.
What would you do if you passed by a homeless person that was brain damaged or had some other mental disability? Would you call these people “in need of aid” or “in need of assistance”? They certainly can’t take care of themselves. Sometimes you see the poor souls catatonic and drooling and will probably succumb to exposure or some such if the weather turns bad.
I just described a large percentage of the homeless people that people in San Francisco encounter every day (at least if you live/work downtown).
My point is that when you’re around homeless people a lot you tend to get hardened to seeing people in varying degrees of “in need of assistance” or “in need medical help”.
For the record if I was in the OP’s position (and I have encountered similar things in my time in living in SF) I would have immediately called or brought it to the attention of a police officer. I would not have approached the man, I would have no idea if they were dangerous or on drugs or crazy etc…
Shiite? I don’t think anybody mentioned anything about religion.
Also, we all “accept living in such communities”. Unless your community somehow manages to control the movements and mental conditions of all who enter it.
This is the sort of turning point I look for. Or running in and out of traffic. Or other forms of endangering self or others. And if somebody out on the street seems seriously confused, yes, I either ask them if they need some help or I call and request a welfare check.
Last year, I think it was, I was walking back from the bus stop when I saw a guy curled up on the grass in front of an office building, right up against the wall. It was broad daylight, and he wasn’t in range of sprinklers. I went up and asked if he was okay, and he growled at me, so I let it go. (I mean growled like a dog, not growled as in muttered something in a harsh tone.)
Of course! You just specified that those conditions weren’t the case in your example. If you did that with every homeless person you found curled up in the city you’d never make it anywhere.
Yes, that’s true. I specified “seriously confused,” not “curled up,” which was a different poster. However, if someone were curled up under a sprinkler, yes, I would call the police.
—No worries. I think some critical majority of us have become confused and irritable ourselves in the last few days, or at least I infer this from our increased ambient prickliness.
By coincidence, one of the doctors I work with told me a story a few days about when he was a resident working the ER in a hospital located near the worst area of Chicago. (This would have been about 40 years ago.) On cold nights a lot of bums would come to the ER in search of a warm place, not because they were seeking active medical care at the moment.
The ER was almost always full of waiting people, and the bums would settle in inconspicuously (as in, without signing in at the nurse’s station) in chairs or sitting against the walls, and frequently fell asleep. Of course, at a fast glance you can’t tell someone who is simply sleeping vs. someone who is passed-out drunk vs. someone who in unconscious for more urgent reasons.
So one of the duties given to the newest resident on the service was to walk around every hour or so and make sure that what seemed like just a sleeping homeless person really was just that. How? By giving the sole of one of their shoes a sharp kick. He said that that will rouse those in no distress AND keep you safely out of range of any ‘retaliatory’ reaction from them, while doing no real damage to them.
And if they didn’t respond, then you knew further help was likely needed.
Anyway, I offer up the story for possible use if you fear getting close enough to lay hands on someone in this kind of situation.
“fuck all you all” is a bit of a broad brush stroke isn’t it?
I was raised in a large and very loving family. I was brought up to have a very high standard of honor and integrity (that I have regretfully failed live up to at times, but I keep striving).
I also needed a job and the one I found was in downtown SF. If I helped or “got his sorry ass up and out” of everyone’s yard (or front porch) every homeless person I encountered I would have had to quit and do that full time every day. In fact many people do devote their days to helping those people.
I can imagine the people who lived in those apartments that homeless people did crash in the porches of would have to do the same. I would also imagine that those people are very busy trying to keep their own heads above water or else be in the same situation as their porch-squatter.
I have no idea what sort of environment you live in but unless its one where you would be doing what you propose every day then you might reconsider the blanket condemnation.
I read it a few times (just to be sure because I’m REALLY uneasy posting in the Pit).
It sounded like Ripper was saying that we should all either make an attempt to help or shoo away every homeless person who decides to bed down in our yards or else he calls into question our upbringing. I just thought I would point out that this is perhaps untenable for a lot of people who might be in this situation.
If I’m misunderstanding or got whooshed by something in the post I apologize for being dense.
I’ve seen what it’s like in San Francisco. But I live in Los Angeles. I’ve intervened with or called 911 on behalf of the guy I mentioned, a guy who collapsed on my street, a guy who was taking photos of kids, an incident that sounded like domestic violence, a woman who was having a seizure, and a lost child.
All this happened over 13 years. If it was like this every day, I probably would react differently. But it’s not, so I don’t.
When I lived in Providence, RI there were a number of homeless/street people, but most of them were known to people in the community, and there was some effort to get them to (or get them taken to) a shelter if the weather was bad, or have the police swing by to see how they were if they seemed particularly intoxicated or insane.
At that time, in that community, there weren’t many assaults by people who fell into this category, perhaps making the assessment a little easier.
I’ve brought the police over to check out a guy that was lying down, passed out halfway into a fountain and a few others that had visible wounds over the 8 years I lived in SF.
I’ve wanted to help out every person I saw that needed psychiatric help or help with whatever substance addiction they suffered. Some of them were seemingly fine they just chose to panhandle/sleep on the street that I’ve had less than sympathetic feelings for.
It was very depressing but after a while you just have to go on with your life or else take up a full time career in social services.
