Blacken his name how? He killed her and everyone knows it. Yes, it’s relevant. So while people are remembering his life, I wanted to remember hers. I mean it’s obvious that I started this thread because Ted Kennedy died, but the hyperbole is unnecessary. I wanted to put up a remembrance of her, and if that blackens Ted Kennedy’s name it’s not because of anything I have done. He killed her. full stop.
Do you have any particular expertise in underwater rescue of people trapped in cars? What, if anything, do you base this analysis on?
Actually the thread in ATMB was started before this one. It was decided that MSPIMS was the inappropriate forum for it but the warning was retracted. So I started it here and the mods are aware of it. I told them I would start it in IMHO before I started it. Do you have any other questions?
No, but this line of logic is silly. “Are you an expert? Then you’re not entitled to an opinion.”
Maybe he couldn’t have gotten her out, and maybe he actually tried. I don’t know, but HE got himself out.
You should be mourning Michael Dutton Douglas then, too.
He’s basing it on the same information / expertise Teddy had when he walked away and left her.
Yes, but not intentionally. That’s why we call it an “accident.” Although the death was a result of his driving, it wasn’t something that we’d attach guilt to. When you say, “He killed her,” you deliberately blur that distinction, and suggest a level of guilt that doesn’t exist.
“None,” in other words.
Usually when a drunk kills someone, or even when a sober person kills someone and flees the scene without alerting authorities we consider it to be murder. Why is Ted Kennedy different?
Like I said, start a thread.
Not to go in-depth on the greater issue here, but Chappaquiddick is actually a small island just off the edge of Martha’s Vineyard. The name actually comes from a native american word meaning seperate island - though in truth they have often been connected by a narrow beach depending on the tides and occassional breaches. A 2007 breach means they really are two seperate islands right now.
The water in question isn’t a river so much as a tidal strait between the two islands about 500 hundred feet wide. Like any other piece of open water, the tides and currents can vary greatly.
There is no Chappaquiddick river. He was driving on Chappaquiddick island, which is sort of kind of attached to Martha’s Vineyard (though you can’t drive from one to the other). He got lost and drove off Dike bridge, a single lane bridge with no guard rail, connecting 2 parts of Chappaquiddick island. No idea how deep the water was there, but the car came to rest on its roof, which would presumably make any amateur rescue attempts in the middle of the night problematical.
I’m certainly no fan of Ted’s, and his actions that night in no way reflect well on him and were most likely criminal, but the idea that he intentionally murdered Mary Jo is ludicrous.
Exactly. Which means, when Ted walked away, he had no idea whether or not Mary Jo was dead or alive, and he still couldn’t be bothered to call someone to help.
mswas is just an internet poster, and his opinions/actions mean nothing, nobody’s life is hanging in the balance.
What really burns me up is folks acting like the Laura Bush accident bears anything more than a passing resemblance to Chappaquiddick. After Laura’s driving error, she didn’t have any opportunity to save Douglas’s life, he was just dead. She didn’t run away, she didn’t hide, she didn’t avoid the authorities. THAT is what people are pissed off about with Chappaquiddick, not the accident.
Do Ted’s defenders actually think people give a crap that he drove off a bridge? It’s his actions after the accident that were reprehensible. Those actions were no accident.
Yes, when a drunk kills someone, we consider it a type of murder.
When a sober person has an accident and flees the scene, though, we do NOT consider it murder. Fleeing the scene is a crime itself, yes, but does not transform an accidental death into a murder.
Laura Bush killed someone with her car too.
Only you don’t know the name of that person, 'cause it got no press, there were no charges or inquiry and no consequences for this wealthy, well connected Texan family.
Ted’s dead, Laura was first lady for 8 yrs and I heard not a single word of outrage from anyone , about her nameless victim.
I don’t think he intentionally murdered her.
Fair enough. If you’d provide a cite proving that fleeing the scene doesn’t make it vehicular homicide then you can consider my ignorance fought.
Dude, I have nothing against you, but you complain about being stalked then turn around and post what some might be inclined to describe as baiting, plus you’re under warning now. Your recent posts seem to be bubbling just under the surface of what some might consider trolling. Are you spoiling for a flameout? I don’t begrudge yours or anyone’s loathing of Ted Kennedy, but you’re giving the impression of just doing this for sport…
Just noting that I don’t believe there is a good comparison, and said as much in my post. I do, however, suspect that with what little I know about cars going into water (citing my super-scientific “watched that episode of Mythbusters” experience) that I doubt he would have been able to save himself and her, even if he went back in himself or immediately sprinted at super-human speeds to the nearest source of help. I do think he should have sought help, or should have reported it the next day, but I also said I don’t know much about what happens in someone’s brain when they run from a scene like that.
Remembering the paucity of cell phones in 1969, and considering that his car was upside down, there’s no reason to believe that his calling anyone would have saved her life. Kennedy made several attempts, himself, to dive down and pull her out, but was unsuccessful. Even if he had had a working cell phone and could have immediately called 911, it’s doubtful resuce could have arrived in time to save her. Faced with the prospect of having to get to a phone, it’s utterly unreasonable to say that she might have lived if he had immediately called for help.
That’s fine. But those actions didn’t cause a death, did they?