Askeptic, FWIW, Tillman was killed while on a Special Forces assignment in Afghanistan. Not in Iraq. In my opinion, our involvement in Afghanistan, to the extent of seeking out and eliminating al Qaeda and Bin Laden, is justifiable and a noble cause. In life the good often die young. I don’t see this as “for nothing”. YMMV.
I’m sorrry about the loss of your friend, I hope you can move forward in your grieving process.
I second Shibb0leth’s position. In Afghanistan, the US seems to be making its best effort to take the fight to lingering Al Qaeda elements and (in theory) even Osama bin Laden.
In Iraq, our nation’s young men and women are as chum, shoveled by the bleeding dozen into the furnace mouth, all to gratify the basest and most twisted urges of a handful of aging neo-con cronies and their daffy, vacuous figurehead.
However, one might make the argument that if the US had devoted its resources to closing the deal in Afghanistan - rather than squandering them all and then some on a foolish gambit in Iraq - perhaps the guys who ambushed Tillman’s patrol would have been taken care of prior to today.
There are a bunch of threads about this guy.
But I don’t find his death any more or less tragic of a loss than the deaths of the hundres of other American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I’ll second RTA’s comments. There are so many ifs here, so many opportunities that almost everyone but this administration saw that were squandered, that Tillman’s death just doesn’t seem necessary. If there had been a real commitment to destroying the Taliban, not just driving them out of Kabul. If there had been a commitment to building a real government there, not just turning it over to the regional warlords - failing that, if there had been a real commitment to helping them become real governments themselves. If there had been a real commitment to helping build the country, instead of “forgetting” to fund it at all. If the phony Iraq war hadn’t drawn forces away from the real one in Afghanistan; if Bin Laden had been found and captured.
But yet another good man is wasted now, one of over 600 good Americans and who knows how many good Afghans and Iraqis. We need to know the stories of each of them as well as we know Pat Tillman’s.
It’s a War constant, and the reason why we have to stop them all: It’s always the most commited, bright… in short always the best are the ones that die.
Somedays I wonder how many Ravels, Borges, Flemings met their death at Verdun or Bastogne.
I agree. Is this death more tragic because he seemed to have a measurable talent in a popular sport? I bet there are hundreds of wonderful athletes, writers, actors, scientests, teachers and doctors dying over there as well, equally as tragic. Anyone who’s life is taken before their time is the subject of tragedy.
Even sadder is that many of the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are there generally against their will as opposed to Tillman volunteering to go. I bet they joined the Army/Navy whatever in order to pay for college or support their familes, and were surprised to be sent over.
One thing I’m curious about (and they’re talking about on sports radio today)
Tillman volunteered to go, turning down a football career. His death leaves his wife and child with nothing, correct? I don’t know anything about the military and their benefits, do they give a sort of pension to wives and children?
I am not sure you want to open this can of worms. If you do please do it by e-mail, because I really do not want to loose my posting ability due to some emotional response to an incensitive asshole. And yes I read the fucking article! Have you been in combat?Have you lost friends in combat? When I say stupid things feel free to call me an idiot, but when a person indicates that a certain issue is painfull to them and that they will not comment further on it, it is cruel to taunt them with it.
Why in fuck’s name would you pop into a rememberance thread and shit all over it? No one, nowhere in this thread said anything about his death being more or less tragic than anyone else’s until you decided to open your fucking piehole. Idiot.
Tillman’s family should certainly have more to support them than the typical widow of an American soldier. He did have three years in the NFL, and would certainly have set his finances in order before he left to join the Army. I don’t think he’d (normally) be eligible for an NFL pension payout (I don’t know if there is a death benefit), but they might have some Army benefits (some of these are “optional”) and Social Security. Per some of the stuff I’ve read Tillman was both smart and frugal, so he should have been able to build a small nest egg on his original signing bonus and salary.
But no one is starting individual threads for other servicepeople dead in Iraq. The very fact that there are several threads on this guy seems to imply that some people think his death is more important.
And it is just as cruel to taunt other grieving posters here by equating an unselfish hero to a $300 tax credit. Everyone here mourns the loss whether it’s Pat Tillman or any other soldier that has died in both countries as well as the civilians and military who died in 9/11 (which is the reason Pat enrolled in the first place along with his brother). That alone means his death was for something…not nothing.
And for those reasons, I’m more than happy to open those can of worms with you.
You make a good point. I do make a real effort to avoid threads concerning the current war. If you read my first post I think it is pretty clear that based on the title I wandered in ignorantly. Read the post, expressed my sorrow and left. Unfortunately, I have the auto e-mail notification set, so when someone replies I get an e-mail. I guess I should change it. I am really trying to fit in around here, and not start fights (like I did at first, all of 4 months ago) but occasionally I still get sucked in by callous or stupid posts about the war. I am willing to talk about it, but I have a hard time controlling my anger when I encounter what I percieve to be criticism or disdain, not of the administration but of the actual young men and women dying in a war they did not start.
You, Zebra, jarbabyj, and anybody else is more than free to start as many threads about the servicepeople who have died. If you do, I would certainly hope that nobody comes into that thread and says “What makes this guy so special?” It’s rude. It’s cruel. It’s uncalled for. It’s asinine. Pat Tillman meant something to the OP, and it’s almost the epitome of tactlessness to question that in a thread expressing how sorry the OP is that Tillman died. If you want to debate the relative worth of one person’s death over another, that’s your perogative. But doing it in a thread meant to remember a man who was admired by some people is just classless.
I, in no way meant any disrespect, and in fact, if it takes a famous person dying overseas to get us to reflect on ALL the youth we’ve lost, then this thread will be of wonderful use.
I am very saddened at the story, because it is the loss of a man and the destruction of a family, including young children, not because he was a good football player.
While we remember Pat Tillman, let’s remember EVERYONE overseas is all I’m saying.
IMHO, it’s not that he is more important, but that the qualities of this man were public knowledge and quite exemplary. He turned down a mult-million dollar contract extension from the Cardinals (in the prime of his career) to voluntarily join the Rangers (he made this decision after 9/11). As for the financial side, I’m sure his wife and child are well taken care of compared to the average grunt, as he played four or five years in the NFL (and earned a few mil) and there is the servicemen’s death benefit, which is about $200K.