As you may or may not know, I am a retired detective (homicide, gangs, narcotics) and now a use-of-force instructor at a police academy. This story is troubling and, if the parents’ allegations can be proven, far worse than that. (I have a hard time understanding how the situation could be under control enough to for anyone to even think of saying “We don’t have time for this” and yet require deadly force.) But that’s a big “if” and there is almost always more to the story than what first appears in the press.
Regarding the “do whatever you have to do in order to go home at the end of your shift” attitude, I can’t imagine when this would be inappropriate thinking. We constantly pound this into officers in training. What is the option? Give up and die? This doesn’t equate to abusing people or an “us versus them” mentality. Its about not putting yourself at un-necessary risk and doing whatever it takes to win a confrontation. No matter how ugly, unseemly, violent or unpopular with the politicians or public it may be.
Cops who use unreasonable force should be dealt with. I have no sympathy for them. But much of the general public seems to have naive beliefs when it comes to the reality of violent confrontations.
Finally, although it does happen, most police use-of-force incidents do not involve a compliant person.
It’s not an unreasonable position. I think any of us, had we witnessed such an event, would hold that our child was the sympathetic victim. We might be wrong, though. That’s the point of the investigation.
Common sense is one of the most worthless “arguments” ever.
In addition to your false dilemma, which has already been exposed, you are pointing to something as “more likely” and expecting us to accept certainty. No, something being likely does not make it true.
And, like many who are not very good at critical thinking, you are arrogant about it.
If that’s true, and I don’t think it is, at least you’re admitting that things may not be presumed. Finally.
“Brainwashed” is the laziest, stupidest claim ever. You can use that for anything. I can say you are brainwashed to believe whatever you believe too. Just as dumb. Don’t try that crap either.
Which is basically the same as (A), with the added condition that the parents focused primarily on the policemen’s actions & remarks (i.e. “We don’t have time for this”) when giving their testimony to the media. What’s been contested here is whether or not the cop’s words “We don’t have time for this” is in fact what really happened or an outright lie; so while they may have excluded evidence that favors the cops (i.e. their kid was wearing a jelly donut t-shirt, not that I would know anything about that) my point is that the parents DID NOT LIE and their statement, while perhaps not verbatim, gives plenty of probable cause to convict the cop in a fair, unbiased, neutral court of law. (A pity no such place exists…)
O RLY??? Are you saying that because you don’t get it, or you’re jealous because you lack it?
As for the cop’s quote, as reported to the media: In all likelihood, there is actual evidence of whether that statement was made. It’s probable that at least one officer was wearing a body mic, and there may well be some video evidence, depending on whether this department has adopted body cameras, or the position of patrol cars during the altercation. According to the news reports, the state police are investigating the incident (and this is standard procedure, to bring in an outside agency for LEO-involved shootings, automobile wrecks, etc.) While many of us are busy being outraged by the statements of grief-stricken parents, a third party is looking at the actual facts in the case.
Again, I’ll withhold judgment, because I don’t have the evidence in front of me.
Fair enough. But based on a little research, there are approximately 925,000 sworn officers in the United States. On average, 58,000+ are assaulted in the line of duty each year. The numbers dropped last year, to a mere 54,000 and some change, but the ten year average is about eight percent higher. In 2012 - the latest year for which figures are available - over 58 million arrests were made in the USA. A vanishingly small percentage of arrestees claim police brutality, and an even smaller number actually suffered malicious injuries at the hands of police.
None of these factors excuses even the first whiff of abuse at the hands of police, but the numbers provide some perspective. Individual anecdotes like those provided in your Wiki links suck, but I have a much greater chance of being assaulted or killed by my neighbor, or my child, than by the cops.
And who do you think polices the police? Internal Affairs? Do you really trust THEM to make a fair and balanced decision based on all the available facts?
You and everyone else really are surprisingly trusting of our government. It’s true that I was wrong to call you all “brainwashed”, since that’s an unnecessary buzzword and we are all brainwashed to some limited degree. But you’ve definitely fallen into the trap of Blind Faith, which never fails to lead even the most astute individual astray…and while I’m tempted to declare that you must be from a Red State, the sad fact is, Liberals are equally guilty in turning a blind eye to all of this corruption.
As in most cases involving city police or county sheriffs, this case is being investigated by the state investigative bureau. There’s not the first doubt in my mind that a sworn police officer, when investigating a fellow officer, is likely to give his colleague the benefit of the doubt. But this vast conspiracy of cops committing evil and covering it up? It doesn’t exist. There are a number of cases per year of LEOs using excessive force (about 1200 accusations in 2009 - the latest year for which I could find numbers,) or using their badges to obtain something illegally. These things should never, ever happen, and each event should be investigated and punished.
However:
1200 *accusations *of excessive force, out of how many millions of arrests? And how many of these accusations were sustained by evidence? This isn’t the epidemic that you’ve painted.
Also, when a school teacher is accused of some crime - violence against a student, improper sexual relations, whatever - are you out here in Internet Land accusing all teachers of violence or rape? If an accountant bilks a client out of his life’s savings, do you start a witch hunt against all CPAs? If a Walmart cashier finally snaps and beats the tar out of some little old lady who spends 15 minutes fishing her checkbook out of her purse, are all retail workers suddenly tainted by the actions of the one? So why are all cops dangerous thugs because a handful are accused of being?
Who said anything about an epidemic of violence? The problem isn’t that these things happen – the problem is that there’s no justice for the victims. You said it yourself: “A fellow officer is likely to give his colleague the benefit of the doubt.” Whereas, nearly all other accused criminals are presumed guilty, from Richard Jewell to the West Memphis Three – even after their innocence has been PROVEN after the fact!
Am I wrong? Because I dare you to name ONE case, just one, where an on-duty police officer was actually sent to jail for a crime he committed while on duty (aside from secretly dealing with the mafia or something like that) – I dare you, I double dog dare you.
Dare accepted. Officers have been convicted of crimes committed against the people whom they were charged with protecting and serving. And that’s terrible. It’s even more terrible when (not if, but when, because I’m absolutely sure that it happens) there’s no justice for the victims. Officers of the law should be held to a high standard of conduct, and some fail to live up to their oaths of office. But that still doesn’t add up to the picture you paint of a bunch of hoodlums with badges, assaulting everyone who gets in their way and facing no punishment for their crimes.
Seriously? You’re claiming that no officer has EVER gone to jail for abusing a suspect? You’re a fucking idiot.
In addition to the cases Lacunae Matata linked, here’s a hugely high profile case from some years ago - Abner Louima was beaten and sodomized by NYC cops in 1997 during an arrest, while they were most definitely “on duty”. One officer got 30 years, and is still in prison today.
This is where you and apparently everyone else is wrong. I’m not defending them. I’m saying wait for the result of the investigation instead of jumping to conclusions. If they acted incorrectly, then they should be hung out to dry.
I love being called names like this. Ad hominem responses simply indicate that you can’t refute what I said because it was correct. Plus, I get to snicker at you because of your childish response.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re unaware of how those two sentences actually parse…(unless it’s your unconscious brainwashing poking through?)
Good on you for conceding that some victims of police brutality receive zero justice or closure. Your attitude still sucks, but it’s a start!
As for your so-called examples, nice work but not as nice as you think:
Washington DC – kiddy porn doesn’t count. (But yes, these stories make me sick.) Des Moines – excessive force, okay but note the story does say it’s a “rare exception”. San Antonio – rape, technically doesn’t count although IMO raping someone is sicker than possessing kiddy porn. :mad: San Marcos, TX – Huff.Post crashes my outdated browser but Google says this was aggravated assault, not murder but okay, close enough. Meriden, CT – excessive force, again. (Where’s the murder???) New York – false arrest & made up charges, doesn’t count but do note this happens far more frequently than what we’ve been talking about. Lawrenceville, GA – drug conspiracy, doesn’t count. New Orleans – Nice try…if you had properly done your research you’d have learned that the convictions were overturned in 2013, and the killer cops were never actually found guilty of murder! Baltimore – drug corruption, doesn’t count. Sacramento – falsifying DUI reports, doesn’t count. Kansas City – excessive force and ‘reckless physical injury’, okay. Milwaukee – sexual assault + the ever popular “violating civil rights” due to being a federal case only.
So far you have found:
Excessive force: Six (I’ll be generous and include rape/sexual assault here)
Drug dealers: Two
Falsifying reports (no assaults or other crimes): Two
Kiddy Porn: One
Murder/Manslaughter: ZERO.
Are you saying that because you don’t get it, or you’re jealous because you lack it?
