It’s been a while since I read ZATAOMM, and I’ve started reading it again. I had completely forgotten about Phaderous (sp?) and him going insane (I know, I know, what do I remember…). In any event, I want to hear more about the insane Phaderous. Did Pirsig write any more about him?
He did indeed, in “Lila: An Inquiry Into Morals”. Phaedrus is apparently the narrator. I’ve put off reading it; I like ZATAOMM so much I’m almost afraid to.
Hmmmm, there once was a poster here named Phaedrus. He was pretty nuts, too. I didn’t know of the link between the two.
Yeah, he no doubt got it from Pirsig. Pirsig took the name from a character in one of Plato’s dialouges.
pravnik, what did you get out of this book? It was the greatest waste of time for me since I read The Tao of Physics, and that’s pretty bad. I kept hoping that the book would actually get somewhere so that the arduous task of reading it would seem worthwhile, but at the end, I was just pissed off that so much of my time was spent on it.
ZATAOMM was not a good as Lila. I think Pirsig is an interesting storyteller who was able to capitalize on his pseudo-schizo search
for some spiritual meaning in his life.
Though, I thought his treatment of his son in ZATAOMM was shitty.
I have heard so many justifications for why he was such an a-hole to his son, but hey—an a-hole by anyother name…
Lila was a fun book, but his spiritual ‘epiphany’ at the end was a let-down. But it does portray well the waste-of-a-lot-of-time that new-agers spend reaching the conclusion of the obvious.
But I guess all must take some journey as such in order to find a meaningful pattern they grok.
So you full-heartedly recommed Lila over ZATAOMM. Did he write it when he “was” phaderous?
I totally agree with you on that. I was actually shocked, I mean, not only is he admitting to this behavior in his book, but he also makes his son out to be, well, sort of a brat. I wonder if therapy is going good for the guy.
Can you ruin the book for me 
what was his spiritual epiphany? Was it different from ZATAOMM?
I am amazed some people liked Lila over ZATAOMM…I read ZATAOMM when it first came out in the seventies and loved it. For those who were nto around, the seventies -at least for me who was a teenanger in the seventies - was a time for discovery and adventure. I loved the book then and still do now. In my own personal library at home I have a first edition ZATAOMM on display on the shelf. I pick it up from time to time and enjoy engulfing myself in the mind of Phaedrus once again. And I thought Pirsig’s 20 year remembrence of Phaedrus was poorly written and only held loosly to the main ideas of who Phaedrus really is. I don’t even have it on my shelf at home. Pirsigs a great guy don’t get me wrong, but something happened to him in the 20 years since ZATAOMM … If I didn’t know any better, he seems to acquired a general distaste for women…
Since this is more of a discussion of the author rather than an actual question, I’m going to steal this for Cafe Society.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Meatros *
**So you full-heartedly recommed Lila over ZATAOMM. Did he write it when he “was” phaderous?
Actually, I’d recommend both. Lila is a little more polished. ZATAOMM is more adventurous. I just prefer Lila because of the ambiance it has (sailing up a river).
Can you ruin the book for me what was his spiritual epiphany? Was it different from ZATAOMM?
At the end he realizes that ‘it’s all good’, meaning that it’s ok to say “yes” to everything in life. ‘Good’ is a noun, verb, adjective, and that “knocks it out of the ballpark” I think is how he phrases it if I remember right.
I don’t have time to wade through ZATAOMM, so could someone fill me in on what is wrong with Pirsig’s attitude re: his son? Thanks in advance!
His son Chris was murdered in San Francisco. IIRC around age 19 or around 1979. It is in an appendix to a later version of ZATAOMM.
IMO, he treats his son badly. At times he snaps at him for being a kid. It’s early and my heads foggy, but IIRC he was entirely too snapish with his son. I seem to recall Pirsig getting upset at his son for having to go to the bathroom. I realize that he had a lot on his mind (like keeping his mind together), but there were times when I cringed, thinking “what an asshole”
Could be just me though.
You people are strange. You sound as if you read the book primarly as biography or fiction, for the narrative story. - ??
It isn’t (really). It’s a theory of meaning and knowledge, a philosophy book, first and foremost. Pirsig, as he himself explains as part of that theory, believes that theories should include the theorist in the foreground “sorting the sand”, using the “knife of distinction” to create categories and make generalizations, because the act of doing so (and the artist weilding the “knife”) is always part of the system of things being theorized, although this is usually not acknowledged in classical academic theory lit, where “subjectivity” and “personal experience” is thought to be a very different thing from “objectivity” and where “beauty” and “elegance” is generally considered to have nothing to do with “meaning” and “functionality”.
That’s not to say that it isn’t a mildly interesting story (schizophrenic guy goes for an adventure on motorcycle with his son) but there’s no denying that Pirsig is a much better philosopher than he is a Daddy or a bike adventurer.
Hey, I read it primarily for tips on teaching freshman English. My next set of classes are in for a very … interesting … experience. 
Okay, maybe now I can get the definitive answer:
Is “Zen…” truly autobiographical, or does it have heavy doses of fictionalized detail thrown in?
For some reason, ever since reading it a while back, I seem to recall often reading reviewers’ descriptions of it as somewhat fictional…
Fretful,
I hope you’re not planning to spend an entire class not saying a single word - unless you really want to freak your students out!
I see. Thank you.